Im sorry...I know it seems to be in vogue to want a new stadium in Hamilton, but I like IWS, in fact I think that it is the best stadium in the CFL...and Ive been to most.

Yes, I know the stadium is old and is in need of repair. Technically speaking, (as a professional in the field of preserving heritage buildings) there are several options to rejuvenate and reinforce the current structure. Steel girders can be nested or twinned, concrete can be reinforced, bathrooms can be renovated, concessions can be improved...all at a fraction of the cost of a new stadium...

Go to the skydome/Rogers centre.......even with 35,000 ppl there, is anyone going to tell me that this place has any kind of atmosphere. At IWS, you can get a seat in the first few rows and heckle your favorite Argo...and trust me, he will hear you! The sightlines are great, and when things are going well for the team, there is an incredible energy in the stands cause this is what the CFL is supposed to be...outdoors in a less than perfect stadium, with a less than perfect league. Everyone is so convinced how much better the NFL is, and how much more skilled that the players are but let me tell you that the CFL is so much more fun to watch.

I'm not from Hamilton, but I do attend alot of games...4-5 a year on average. I'm not an urban planner, but I don't really think that having a football stadium will revitalize a neighbourhood. The Cats play 10 games a year what about the other 355? Take away the 5 months of winter...and you are left with about 200 days where people could attend events.

Maybe part of the problem is that IWS isn't a fun place to go anymore. There are problems to overcome on a football level, thats for sure, and I have a feeling that once the team turns it around, alot of the current problems will dissapear....the seats will become more comfortable and maybe more "real fans" will start coming back, rather that the drunken teenagers that seem to annoy everyonre. The warm beer and the cold hotdogs will taste better, you wont mind the minor problems cause you will be having a good tiime.

The next time you go.....sit back for a moment. Close your eyes, remember your first trip to IWS. Look up at the wall of honour and rember what football used to be like..... IWS is as much a part of the Ticat tradition as the players on that wall.

You need 5000 more seatsk, it can be done, you need better washrooms, no prob.

One thing for sure, the isn't an architect in the world that can design "soul, tradition, history" into a new stadium.

Ticat fans, you have a jewel (albeit slightly tarnished) on your hands here. Cherish it because its special.

A lot would agree with you Als on this. But remember, we are talking about more than just the TiCats here, far more, we are talking about part of a revitilization of Hamilton in the whole with the Pan-Am Games bid part of this. This really is not about the TiCats only at all. It is quite complicated really, probably more complicated than I had imagined.

I agree with 1st poster 200%

As I said, I dont live here but I imagine you are right. One thing that I’m pretty sure of is that the pan-am games by themselves might inject a little extra revenue into the city, but a revitalization of the area will require a whole lot more than a 2 week event. It would require facilities that would benefit residents for years to come, parks, arenas, restaurants, museums…etc. maybe Im wrong but I can’t see the pan am games as a big money maker, nor do I see building a track and field friendly venue being advantageous to the Cats…who would almost certainly be the main, if not sole users of the new stadium, after the pan am games.

DSpeaking as an outsider…I never really knew how beautiful Hamilton was until I had visited several times. Like every other city, it has it’s impoverished areas but certainly the area around IWS could be used in a more fan friendly way.

Maybe I’m a traditionalist, but I don’t think that the pan am games can generate enough $$$ to warrant huge expenditures.

Keep the faith!

I have attended several games at IW and found this is a user friendly stadium. Being so close to the field is the IW plus. LIKE Molson stadium in Montreal, the fans are close to the field of play. The Big Owe in Montreal sits the fans too far from the playing action as does the stadium in Toronto. While IW does need some upgrades, this is a fan centered stadium. kEEP IT!

If Hamilton ever wants to rejuvinate the Downtown , The City has to increase the property value of the north and east end, The location of I.W is already close to the downtown core, and instead of wasting time on the Lister Block put money into the Historic Ivor Wynne Stadium. put in a track in (brian timms?) stadium, and scott park facility upgrades to creat a place people want to go to whatever!! Then put some big Hotel and Condos in the Downtown, minus the Lister block eye sore!!!

I completely disagree with the first poster. A new stadium is needed. We can hang onto all the tradition and history but the fact of the matter is that this team will never be in Eskimo-esque money making territory with out the money making capabilities of a new stadium. No one is going to build a 50,000 seat, Rogers Centre monstrosity in Hamilton and the new stadium talk does not come solely from a desire to be like the NFL or to forget about how bad the team has been. The new stadium talk is about wanting what's best for the CFL, the Tiger-Cats and the City of Hamilton.

The Toronto Rock, London Knights and TFC all play out of modern venues and none of those teams play in the second most popular sports league in the country and none of those teams are NFL franchises.

The talk of limited usability is exactly an an argument for why a stadium is needed. Ivor Wynne hasn't hosted an event outside CFL football and amateur sport since the Floyd concert. I'm not sure why that is but I'm pretty sure it has to do with the fact its nestled in a residential neighborhood.

I agree Als4, a new or even refurbished IWS will not automatically lead to urban renewal in the neighboring communities. It would require a multi-faceted approach like I've heard coming from the Aspers in Winnipeg and Ottawa (i.e. condos, shopping, open spaces, green areas, parking, recreational facilities in addition to IWS, galleries, etc. etc.). Frankly, although I admittedly down the QEW live in Toronto, I haven't seen anything approaching this kind of vision or motivation from Hamilton politicians. As a group, they seem to be content with the status quo.

The Pan Am Games are an iffy proposition at best and even if Ontario won the bid, there are no guarantees that it would lead to a new stadium in Hamilton. I can see several communities lining up for that stadium to be built in their community. Nor do I think for a second that the Games wouldbe a moneymaker. Vancouver is already making noises about going over budget for their Olympic Games.

I agree that IWS has some major problems buy they can be addressed with good planning, strong leadership and wise spending. I hope they give more serious thought to upgrading IWS before they get carried away with the idea of a new stadium (which likely won't happen in my lifetime).

I don't agree that the Rogers Centre is not a good place to watch a CFL game. It does have a 'big league' vibe to it, it's modern, it's clean, it's accessible by car and public transit, it's located in the entertainment center of the city. In other words, although it isn't a perfect football venue, it does have a lot going for it.

An Argo-Cat fan

I think you have made a heck of a good case here.
I would rather see IWS refurbished than build a new stadium.
And I don't think the justification should be tied into "urban renewal" or anything else. It should be fixed up and improved simply because it's Ivor Wynne Stadium and thats there where the Tiger-Cats play!
And also because the backless bench seats are too uncomfortable (I'm 6-2) and have no leg room :stuck_out_tongue: .

I like Ivor Wynne too but it's time has seriously come. I know Hamilton will not get a new stadium but IF that were to happen, I would really welcome it. Ivor Wynne is great that you are so close to the action, but in the stands it is horrible sitting on those wooden benches. At least put in proper seats, already. It's 2009! It needs major renovations and I'm not just talking about filling cracks or twisting steel girters together. It is not modern. Fixing the broken parts is a band aid solution and maybe the only one we have. But the fact remains, I would still love a new stadium, as much as I like Ivor Wynne.

Yes a great place to watch, but it should be condemned.

Although wooden seats, yes, old, but aluminum seats without a back which the Packers have do seem to be alright for the fans of the Pack as we all know. Just maybe not the magic markers, maybe some official aluminum paint for each seat. :wink:

Well leaving out the technical and social impact issues.....I can't imagine a better CFL stadium, even better than my beloved Percival Molson...

Sorry guys but I'm a hopeless romantic!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

I can - Ottawa - Frank Clair Stadium, great place to watch a game better than Molsn and Ivor Wynee!!
and here is the latest on a new stadium in Ottawa:

[url=http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/Lansdowne+best+spot+stadium/1221037/story.html]http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/Lan ... story.html[/url]

It's great to see two groups wanting to build stadiums, Melnyk wants his 25,000 seat soccer stadium out next to the Scotia Bank Place and the Hunt group with deep pockets wants to re-build Lansdowne.

I lived in Ottawa for a short time and had the privilege, yes privilege I would say, of going to a couple RR games way back and a 'Gade game and absolutely loved that stadium and the location along the canal. Sure, it was a bit old with wooden benches if I remember correctly but great stadium nonetheless and what a location!

alsforever: You're not getting a lot of support on this thread with the exception of a few posters who agree with you. There are just as many of us who don't agree with you.

Twisting steel girders? How would you propose to do that without heat treating them in a furnace? How to you plan to get at said girders without knocking a good part of the concrete down. The steel girders and rebar in the concrete are the main reason this place is FINISHED. Oxidation continues in this cheap steel, some of which was manufactured in 1929 and 1930. Sure it could go another 10 years, maybe 20, before it begins to collapse OR this could take place, even sooner.

The 40 million dollars that the city is telling us will refurbish IWs would appear like a good deal, but how long will this $0 mil last and how on earth will it accomplish your idea of twisting steel girders.

I'm as sentimental as you about watching football in this shrine with all of it's wonderful history, but it's over!

Never said twisted....

Said "Nested or twinned"...which basically means bracing the Old beams (at least the visible ones) by bulding a support system around it almost like a splint. In my practice, I am currently restoring several late 20's bldgs, and this is rather commonplace. Heavily corroded Rebar is natural at this age, as is crumbling concrete...as I do not have xray vision, I can only judge on external appearance which didn't seem to be too bad. Proper patchwork repair could be done, and fissures could be sealed to prevent further water infiltration into the concrete and slow down corrosion of steel structures within..

If the Concrete is deemed beyond repair, I suggest you check out this PDF, unfortunate I can only send the whole doccument, but check out the plan to expand and restore molson stadiun...can you tell me that IWS is as bad as whats shown in the old black and white pics?
If Montreal can take a decripit stadium in an impossibly impractical location and make it into a success IWS should be a snap... :wink:

[url=http://en.montrealalouettes.com/uploads/assets/MTL/Documents/expansionproject.pdf]http://en.montrealalouettes.com/uploads ... roject.pdf[/url]

als, I'd be doing everything to save Molson Stadium also? Why? The location is absolutely fantastic.

IWS is not in a fantastic area to showcase what Hamilton has to offer. Why pour money into if it isn't in the right location? We use this philosophy, most of us, about our homes. There will not be appreciation of value real estate in the current location of IWS, less likely than in other more desirable locations where it might make sense to pour money into an older facility.

My apologies, alsforever. I read in another part of the thread that you said "twisted." My bad for not going back to your original post.
Your PDF is entirely in French, so I didn't get much out of it. Nesting and twinning the beams is a good idea; however, you are referring only to the beams you can see. What about the ones you can't see.
You mention that you don't have x-ray vision, but ultra sonic testing does. Did any of this take place at Molson Stadium and at what cost? How long before Molson Stadium needs more attention?

Many a structure has collapsed after being pronounced "safe" in the past and they, like Molson Stadium were renovated based on what the human eye could see. Some were done properly with proper metallurical testing and the works, and still fell. Please don't ask me to supply sources on this information as it would take research I don't have time for. I can only tell you that the beams under the concrete must be tested and this can only be done by trained metallurgists which, apparantly Molson's did not do. (based on your comments of not having x-ray vision and "I can only judge on external appearances.")

If seen the news Today Hamilton has Deadline they have meet shortly .
It has do setting place for stadium and asking for the money if we get the game
Hamilton Mayor said it only they can get a new Stadium is if they win the games with Toronto
So I am hoping the bid Fails.. sorry I Love IVOR WYNNE .

I rather play old Broken down Stadium then one with Track ..