I know who to blame for this mess!

Roy Shivers. Think about it: In his last year as GM he over payed KJ, and alot of other players. Then when he got fired, and ET took over, he had no cap room to do anything! So, when KJ took a pay cut, I'm not sure were we just under the cap?(correct me if I'm wrong). Then after the grey cup when KJ asked for a raise we couldn't give it to him cause we were just under the cap. So, if you want to blame anyone for this mess blame Shivers!

Gesus, do we have to start this crap again?

Everyone needs a scapegoat... :wink:

Sure pick on Roy now that he has the love of us BC fans now!

No. I blame Tillman. And Roy Shivers didnt give KJ his contract. That was his Ottawa contract I think.

Why do we have to blame someone and who said it was a mess?

Is it a mess? Training camp hasn't yet begun. Wait for football to be played. If it's a mess and we're getting are butts kicked. Blame Tillman and Hopson! But lets not shoot first ask questions later.

I don't think you can blame one person for this, there are a lot of factors involved in why KJ is now Argo, but to blame Shivers for it is to ignore a number of other factors that led to this trade. In may hurt the team in the short term, but will benefit us in the longer term. We have some young QBs and the time is now to develop and groom them to take over as our starter.

Shivers is not to blame. Tillman is not to blame. Gliebermans gave Joseph that contract. Not Shivers or Tillman. Shivers had 7 years. He didnt get job done. But dont blame him for Joseph. And dont blame new gm. How about this? Shivers haters stop hating. Tillman haters stop hating. Cheer for Riders. Team won cup. Enjoy it. And maybe this is true. Riders might not be screwed up. I didnt like Kerry Joseph trade. But what if Crandall or Jyles or Tate play good. Jyles and Tate might be as good as BCs Jackson and Pierce. 2 young qbs who did much better than people though they would.

I'm with you Austinpowers. The outrage of KJ's trade reminds me of an election campaign...mudslinging, insults, etc. Enough loudmouths...shut your yap and support ET. Who knows, he may be able to weave his magic two years in a row! Wouldn't that be a fine "How do you do"?

I believe with Crandell at the helm you guys may be able to finish with a 8:10 - 9:9 record. you may make the playoffs, depending on edmonton and how bad clagary's defence is, or if hank chokes and Dave dick gets hurt...

But in reality, weather you choose to believe it or not, You traded your starting MOP QB, and your young QB's won't be ready. Take a look at what Ryan Dinnwiddie did in the grey cup... thats how your QB's will more then likely pan out.

No. It is on Tillman. He chose not to pay the MOP of the CFL. It makes him look like a fool especially because last year, KJ was asked to take a paycut and a large portion of that was because of his performance. You know it, I know it, we all know it. So when the guy is a MOP, you gotta pay him. Its simple enough logic to me.

A fool. That fool brought Joseph to CFL. That fool won cup in 1st year with team. That fool has 3 rings. Why did he ask Joseph to take pay cut? Because gm before him had team over cap. Shivers made Riders better. But he was also gm of team way over cap. But Shivers is in BC. Tillman is here. Next 3 years we will see. Head to head. Do Riders stay as winning team. 10 wins or more. Does BC stay the best. Lions have won 13 and 12 and 14 last 3 years. I believe Riders will win as many as Lions this year.

I dont like the trade. But Joseph is 35. Was he ever award winner before? Even close to it? He stayed healthy and Austin did great job coaching him. But $350,000 at 35. No. I wish Tillman had said $300,000 or sit out. Now we may see if he is right about Tate and Jyles. If hes right. Who will fool be Jman.

I think we need a babysitter in here, every single thread turns into a Tillman vs Shivers debate.

I think some should get the boot personally. I won't even let me son look at this website without me looking over his shoulder, making sure he does not go to the forum section. There are lessons in sportsmanship here that I do not want him to learn.

But, I will wade into the debate just a little. I think Shivers did a good job as GM, but not a great job. His days were numbered in my opinion, when early in his last season, he was seen on national television berating some of the players sitting on the bench when the 'riders were losing a game. I think it was that poor decision that became the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back."

With Shivers, I supported the players he brought up from the States to play here, including his and Danny Barrett's decision with OL Charles Thomas. I understood why Jon Colon was cut when it appeared that he outplayed Thomas in the preseason, knowing that Colon had a reputation for having a bad attitude when he played college ball. I thought that Nealon Greene and Marcus Crandell had the potential to be a better QB tandem than Henry Burris and Marcus Crandell. Although I would wonder silently to myself why when a team can dress up to 22 imports, that each and every one of those imports was African American. But I also believed that he made Regina finally, an attractive option for African American athletes, which on its own was a very good thing. I was supportive of Shivers, when he was GM, because he was the 'rider GM and I am a 'rider fan.

But now Eric Tillman is GM and my loyalty to the 'riders demands that I support him. And that is all I have to say.

Dust. Sorry I broke my promise. Said I was going to ignore them. But I come on here and same 2 or 3 always kicking Tillman. Last year he was killing team. Then when team is good hes a liar. When the team lost 3 in row its Tillmans team. Whenn they win 12 and win cup its Shivers team. Now its Tillmans killing team again. They never stop.

I wish we could talk about the trade. I dont like Joseph trade. But everyone has there opinion. Good or bad. But same people cant talk about trade without making it another Tillman attack. Then when I say ok lets look at Shivers and his record. His 7 years. Compare it to Tillman. And its we need a babysitter.

Like I said before. I am a Riders fan. Not Ford or Shivers or Tillman fan. Tired of all the fun being taken away from being a Riders fan. Trying to enjoy the Grey Cup championship. Is that to much to ask? For some yes.

It is pretty brutal when we as Rider fans cant even speak on the trade because certain people either choose to ALWAYS hate a certain person, or because certain people choose to bash other people just because they have a certain opinion.

This thread is a pathetic embarassment. Maybe we don't deserve a cup with the way we show our "appreciation" to all in the past who had a part in building the team.

Wow ...

It takes 2 people for the argument to take place, I'm trying not to single anyone out I'd just like to read or discuss something that hasn't already been beaten to death in here.

I disagree I think every thread has been an embarrassment, 99.9 percent of my posts included. Those would be posts in disgust of what I was reading.

We don't deserve the cup? Hmmmm no can't agree with you there either. From what I've seen from some of the fans of other teams we are no different. We are just more.

The reaction at the Rider office last week? I think that would happen anywhere in the CFL or any other league for that matter. When is the last time a MOP quarterback got traded after winning the prize? It is sad but it is also human nature, we all love being #1 & don't want to jeopardize that for anything.

Just though I would add some of my thoughts to your statement.

I believe this thread was started just to vent off some steam, I do not think it was meant to be a bashing thread even tho it would seem so... OK I'm probably wrong there, I just re read the original post....

Maybe you are right :cry: