Ok, so in my days of touch football, we would often attempt and sometimes succeed to do the following.
QB is being rushed by one person. QB tosses the ball up in the air and runs around the rusher and catches the ball. Now, I wonder the following if a QB tried this in CFL.
a) if the QB is successfull in catching his own "pass" behind the line of scrimmage, would it be ruled a pass as in he can not still throw the ball.
b) if the QB manages to touch the ball but does not catch it, would it be ruled an incommplete pass or a fumble.
C) if the QB fails to touch the ball and no reciever in the area, would it be a penalty.
d) if the QB is hit after throwing and it is a late hit penalty, would it still be a penalty on him as well if there is no receiver in the area.
Just wondering. Because with the strickness of the late hit rules lately, it would seem that all a QB has to do at the last moment is throw the ball up in the air and get himself a late hit penalty. Even with matching penalties, would it not benifit the QB. Then if he isnt hit, if he is good enough and fast enough, he can avoid the defending player and catch his own "pass" on the run and the play keeps going.
It should be noted that in all the above scenerios, the QB would be tossing the ball into an area where there are no other defenders. This is pretty much meant to be one on one situation. I am not saying this is very possible, just what if.
It'll be interesting to hear the responses and details about the rules regarding this type of play.
All I can add is...Nelson Muntz did it with great success.
whats the yardage penalty for grounding vs late hit. Would the net favor the offense. Not to mention down over. Would it not be a good tactice to try to create a possible late hit by throwing the ball up and away when a defender is very close, likein the air a foot away from you, since they seem to be calling those as late hits still.
Interesting scenario. I think there's one aspect being missed, and that is whether the quarterback is throwing the ball forward or not.
Say he tosses it sideways - which would probably be easier to get if he can quickly elude the tackler, or straight up and the ball does not travel forward, or even goes slightly backwards. In this case, it would be ruled a lateral, not a forward pass and he would be allowed to throw the ball. The problem here is that whether he touches the ball or not, it would then be ruled a fumble (I believe) and anyone could pick it up.
If he got hit, I don't know if they would call a penalty or not, since it wasn't a late hit on a throw. I believe that there is a penalty for impeding a player from pursuing a fumbled ball, but if he got hit right after tossing it up, I suspect the refs would consider the hit to be the play which caused the fumble, rather than impeding him from getting to the ball.
Of course, there would also not be a penalty for not having a receiver in the area, or intentional grounding, since it wouldn't be considered a forward pass.
for clearity, all my scenerios are based on the ball not going back at all. However, a different tossing motion, such as underhand almost straight up might make a difference???
Yeah, I was wondering about that. The only way I can really see it going straight up or backwards is an underhand throw of some sort. Sideways might be a little different, but still unlikely.
If we assume a forward pass then:
a) I'm pretty sure it's still a pass even if it's caught behind the line of scrimmage, so he wouldn't be able to throw it again.
b) incomplete if he touches it
c) no receiver in the area = intentional grounding if it does not pass the line of scrimmage
d) I'm pretty sure that they would still apply a penalty to the QB, so probably the would just take the yards and apply the penalty (10 yards against, I think, for intentional grounding, 15 for roughing the passer, so a net gain of 5). It may be an automatic first down because of the roughing the passer call, though.
A play like the one suggested might work in a flag football league, but Im not so sure it would work in pro league, at least not for big yardage anyway.
a) Depends on the direction of the throw. If he tosses it over the rushing player behind the line of scrimmage BUT NOT forward than yes. The CFL rule is that there can only be one FORWARD pass
b) See above answer, If it is a forward pass it would be incomplete. If it was NOT forward weither he touches it or not doesnt matter.
C) Yes, ball must cross the line of scrimmage.
d) Cant see why it wouldnt be
This reminds me of a gadget play we used to do. We would throw a hitch-pass to the SB who would be a few yards behind the QB. The QB would bounce the ball, the SB would catch it (off the hop) look upset and casually run jog towards the nearest ref ball out like he was going to hand it to him, then he would take off running down field.
If it is a lateral, the answer is different.
He can throw it “again” as he hasn’t “thrown” it the first time.
It is a fumble, not an incompletion.
And there is no penalty on a lateral regardless of where a receiver/ball carrier is or is not.
You can only receive a “grounding” penalty by throwing an incompletion.
By definition, a lateral is not an incomplete pass.
