Not sure what that quote is supposed to prove. The debts refered to are the Trappers debts, not the Eskimos. If you read it it states very clearly the "Baseball teams" debts. It also states that the Eskimos owned the Trappers, not the City.
I think we're talking about the football operations. The Ticats are probably only worth around 5 million. But Bob Young could put $100 million in the TiCats bank account and then the package of team plus cash would be worth $105 million.
It doesn't mean the Cats are worth $105 million. The Cats franchise is still only worth $5 million.
quote=“Tiger_Dirt”][url=http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2003/10/23/trappers031023.html]http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2003/10/ ... 31023.html[/url]
Not sure what that quote is supposed to prove. The debts refered to are the Trappers debts, not the Eskimos. If you read it it states very clearly the “Baseball teams” debts. It also states that the Eskimos owned the Trappers, not the City.
Okay, but if the Esks own the Trappers, how is it not their debt as well? Even though they operate as two different enterprises, the money still goes to the same people.
So the city doesn’t own the Esks, so shoot me now.
Who said that they sold for 15 mil? Wrong, 10 mil!
The money they made off the deal went to the Esks to help them as well. Without the sale, they would have lost another 500,000 per year that they own the club. This is the exact reason why they sold the club or they would have gone bankrupt eventually.
I was wrong in saying that the Esks were in financial difficult me, feel free to shoot me again, but if this deal didn’t go down, they would have been in trouble. Even though 2 books are kept, the money comes from the same place, the owners of the Eskimos.
I was kind of surprised when Cohon said during the Grey Cup pregame show that the new Ottawa franchise fee would only be 7 million. I mean I understand its the CFL and all these hard times, blah blah. But still, the last time Ottawa got a team it was 5 million, and that was several years ago.
How is a pro sports franchise with an annual operating budget of aprox. 15 milion/year, operating in a stable, long-running league, in this day and age of pro sports only worth 7 million? You'd think the CFL would adjust for inflation and what other leagues are getting. In my mind, 10 million would be more appropriate. 8 for each team and 2 for the league.
What I find particularly interesting is both the value of an MLS franchise by comparison, and how much the billionaires of North America like Melnyk in Ottawa are showing in MLS. They're talking 50 million for a franchise now!!! 50 million! I think this spells real trouble for the CFL given that guys like him are super politically connected and will likely be able to convince the Feds to build them their stadiums by playing an amateur sport angle. i.e. letting the nations thousands of soccer players use their facilities, etc.
If I'm the CFL, I'm talking to MLS right freakin' now to create some partnerships that will allow the CFL to access some of the dollars these guys play with and the new stadiums. But that's just me.
The Lions are teaming up with the Whitecaps make the retractable dome feasible in Vancouver. You would think that a prospective soccer team in Ottawa would team up with the Rough Riders and get in on the renovations at Frank Clair, but Melnyk seems to want to go it alone. His plan to build a new soccer-only stadium seems more of a ploy to throw a monkey-wrench into the Lansdowne renovation bid as he probably doesn’t want the competition.
A prospective new owner of a CFL franchise could expect to lose money for the first 2 or 3 years. So that is another $6 to $10M investment required to operate the franchise. If you price the expansion fee too high, coupled with those probable operating losses…then they have to do a dog and pony show with the local gov’ts to get the approval to spend tens of millions more on the stadium…it might not seem worth your while.
MLS is a fad right now. The Arena league was hot a few years back too, and franchises were costly, but look at them now? Bankcrupt, just like NFL Europe, which was losing $30M per season. The CFL is so far superior to the MLS in terms of professionality and a successful business model…it isn’t funny. Considering national TV and Sponsorship contracts, TV ratings and attendance, it’s the CFL which should be asking a $40M franchise fee and the MLS $7M. But the MLS is trendy and American and the CFL is not.
While the NFL is laying off staff and other leagues are going banckrupt, the CFL is stronger and more successful that in any time in history. The league has seen the lean times and has developed a business model which can probably weather a global economic slowdown better than any other league on the planet. As long as the fans still come out to the games, and ticket prices remain as fan friendly as they have been, the CFL will continue to grow and prosper, delivering the most exciting sport in the world for years to come!:rockin:
I came across this article from October 31/08 and it said that Braley considered selling the Lions two years ago for between $10-$15 million. It also made it seem like they would be worth more two years later. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it I guess.
I believe when the Stampeders were bought by the new ownership group it was for $11 million.
Is the CFL expansion fee still $5 million?
Ottawa's is stated as $7M but there were some reports that it was actually $5M with a $2M safety net. I don't know if that $2M ever gets returned if the ownership proves itself or what.
Alan Maki says it was $6.5 million plus approx. $1 million in severance packages (for Dunnigan and Fateri I guess). Sure the Stamps brand was damaged by the Feterik era, but since the early 90's they have been one of the top CFL teams on the field and at the gate.
And in 2005, the Stamps (with an adequate stadium, loyal fanbase in a football city) were only worth $6.5 million. They probably have positive cash flow too. Paying $7 million for the privilege of trying to revive football interest in Ottawa (during a recession) and rebuild the stadium seems a little steep to me.
Not sure where Maki got his numbers from but I believe the 10% that isn’t owned by Hellard portion was worth a million dollars to the Flames and Forzani group which would put the total at least to 10 million. Will look to see if I can dig up a more accurate number.
That said the Stampeders do not own McMahon so that wouldn’t have been included as part of the deal. They have however done some minor renovations to it including the current moving of the offices out of their own pocket.
This article puts the sale value even lower to 6.1 million and also tags it with being a CFL record. With the guys from Fan590 saying that the average CFL team expenses are around $11 million and revenues ranging from $14 to $17 million a year you'd think that a team would be worth more than that.http://www.albertaventure.com/?p=1512&year=2005
Since you have now found an article saying $6.1 million, do we all agree that the sale price of the Stamps was $6 million and change?
The point is that an existing CFL franchise like the Stamps already has an adequate place to play, whether they own the stadium or not. The group in Ottawa has only 3/4 of a stadium to play in. Without spending millions of dollars and years of planning, lobbying and project management on the stadium renovations, there is no-where for a CFL team in Ottawa to play.
It is appearing like that $6.1 to $6.5 is likely the price. Makes me wonder why Ted Hellard didn't just buy the team outright if that was the sale number.
I see what you mean regarding the stadium. Building/repairing in Ottawa will be priority and I have heard that things have potentially been approved with a council vote on repairing Landsdowne Park to be held this month. Those in Ottawa would know more.
It is fairly common knowledge that the Stamps sold for $6.5M, but that was several years ago after attendance had plummeted with Feterik driving the franchise into the ground (and Ottawa/Toronto/Hamilton going bankrupt around that time dragging down the perceived value of CFL teams). The Stamps and the entire league are on much more solid footing now after several years of record TV ratings and attendance. I pegged their value at about $12M today...a little lower than BC due to the lack of stadium revenue streams.
Average attendance at Stampeders games hasn't been under 30,000 for over a decade... including the Feterik era. For every year of the Feterik era, the Stamps had the 2nd highest attendance in the CFL even though they went 15-39. So its a bit of a stretch to say that attendance plummeted.
Let's look at how well some other investments have fared since 2005 when Feterik sold the Stamps for 6.1 to 6.5 million...
Overall economy - TSX up 0.42%
Entertainment sector - Disney down 19.28%
Construction sector - Finning down 14.43%
Energy Sector - Petro-Canada down 1.84%
Feterik bought the Stamps for $5.1 million. Maybe Forzani, Hellard and Doug Mitchell overpaid and it was really only worth $4 million after Feterik "drove the franchise into the ground" If so, the value of the Stampeders franchise has tripled, or did it only double?
Oh, geez, I didn't realize Disney stock was down 19%. I will have to reduce the Stamps value by $25k to $11.975M.