How do the Argos get 10,000 more fans?

No worries, buddy. :slight_smile:

Also want the teams to protect their league. I would propose a revenue sharing agreement. The way it would work is that each team is required to purchase 300 tickets from every team. So each team is assured of 2400 additional season seats if needed. A threshold is established at say 18000 tickets sold. If a team does not sell the required 18000 seats to a game then the 2400 are given away to schools, colleges, universities, military or some other promotion. Each team protecting the group of 9 teams. This would be considered a revenue sharing model and gives the team the ability to help promote/market the team in their area and it gives the team 2400 more bodies in the seats. Hopefully one day no one would need it. NFL has a 60/40 split so this is only a small help to the teams that are in down years or trying to build the fan base back up. Not many teams had less than 18000 tickets sold. I think it could work and it would help promote the league and teams.

Do you honestly believe that if the new Owners started marketing in October, November, or December 2015, BMO would have sold out this season ?

No, but with better pricing, they might have sold out the Grey Cup. :wink:

I can't speak to LT's motives but I truly believe BCE doesn't give the Argos much thought. Their limited thinking...

Grey Cup profits will be used to help the Argos approach breaking even every year and protect the TSN/CFL package and that will keep the team off the Share Holder's radar. After that, they have MUCH, MUCH bigger fish to fry.

I don't know how much more "marketing" they needed. The Argos moving to BMO and the new ownership group was all over the media for months. The news about the Grey Cup and the NHL outdoor game etc
Then there was the CFL ads on TV the posters on the subway/TTC etc
It's always easy to blame the lack of interest on "marketing" but the CFL and the Argos did a lot of it this year.
You can't blame marketing or ticket prices for the low attendance this year. Thousands of unsold tickets in the $25 to $50 range.

You can't blame high ticket prices for the Grey Cup either, Torontonians will spend a lot of money on other sports, Jays playoff tickets, Leaf/Raptor tickets, there is a lot of money out there in that city.
It comes down to the lack of interest in the CFL in Toronto.
The new ownership group overestimated the interest in the Argos and the move to BMO.
They must be thinking "what more can we do to generate interest in the Argos and the CFL" ?

I had people asking me commenting in a surprised way about BMO. They didn't know that that's where the team was going to play. When you have fallen so far you needed to market sooner then they did.

To me the biggest issue is the horrible schedule. You can't compare it to the Leafs or Jays. Football needs to be a weekend thing. To me it just doesn't seem right to have Tuesday and Wednesday games. Games all over the place so the casual fan has no idea when the team is playing.

True. The CFL has to work with the Argos to ensure a healthy schedule.

The Argos need to reboot in 2017. Hopefully their ownership/management team learnt some lessons with 2016 under their belts.
A lot of the suggestions in this thread are good ones, maybe "someone" might listen/see them, and try something.

To me, Toronto should not have gotten a Grey Cup so soon (first year in BMO), it was premature. The NEW Argos organization needed to learn the ropes ... walk before run. There was probably some backroom deal made to the new ownership by the CFL, that shouldn't have been carried out so soon.

Oh ya, FIRE BARKER & MILANOVICH!

How do the Argos get another 10,000 fans ? That's easy , just strap skates onto all the players give them hockey sticks, flood BMO field into an outdoor pond freeze it and then change the name of the team to the Maple Argos and voila just like Pavlov's dog you have instant sellouts no matter how bad the product is. Build it , freeze it and they will come. :roll:

Fire Barker and Millanovich.

First they need a GM who will bring in talent that can play in a team setting rather than over rated hot heads who do more damage than good. A GM that realizes the future stretches beyond the next season and has a long term plan for the team which includes developing talent for themselves and not the rest of the league.

Get a HC. They don't have a HC right now and haven't for 4 years. Someone who knows how to win at home, understands that defence and STs are important too and knows how to recognize when team discipline is causing problems.

Mass market all you want, but who wants to watch a gong show when you know they're going to lose because it's a home game.

Another good one Bobo. haha.

I still say that the Argos should go for the throat with their marketing and rip the other TO teams who've won squat. Leaf fans come back with the fact that there's so many NHL teams but they haven't won since there was 6.

I do cheer for the Leafs but it's always Argos first for me.

Hi all! Long-time lurker, first-time poster!

I agree with everyone here that the Argo situation is not one that is easily solved. The excuses that we hear all the time, though, are not that valid….

“Toronto wants to cheer for a winner? – then the Maple Leafs should have moved to Las Vegas by now, so thats out. Also, the Jays don’t draw well if they aren’t winning…

“People in Toronto are only interested in watching the ‘big-leagues’/highest calibre of play? – TFC is nowhere near the highest level of association football, and most Torontonians would rather go watch the Bills play the Browns – also nowhere the top level of play – than go see the Argos. So I don’t buy this either.

“People don’t care about the Argos/CFL? – the 2012 Grey Cup with Toronto in it drew a sell-out…I would think that 32-34,000 of those were from the T.O. area, which tells me that the Argos still could have a following.

The problem as I see it is the lack of perceived value. And I think that the Toronto is a bit of a microcosm of things across the league. In my opinion, the CFL could do itself a HUGE favour by improving the overall level of play, league-wide. My thoughts on how to do this (I am sure this has been covered dozens of times by now…):

***Without adjusting players’ salaries, make training camp and pre-season longer! As part of this, shorten the regular season. Given the gate money the owners need and TSN’s need to generate Canadian content, this is a long-shot! But, if you think about it, this seems like a no-brainer. More practice time will mean a better start to the season, and a shortened season means that there is less chance of player being hurt in a meaningless game in June/October. You have now improved the product, and created a bit of scarcity for tickets. Again, I don’t think this will happen, which is unfortunate, because if Im working with the Argos, I would prefer 8 home games with an average of 19K, rather than 9 games averaging 15K (That’s almost 20K more seats filled). I could see BC, Calgary and Montreal maybe even being in favor of this.

***They also need to make sure that they are selling what people want to buy. Perhaps in Toronto there isn’t the demand for season tickets…..maybe for most people $400 on the 10 home dates isn’t worth it, but maybe $100 for 3 games is. Maybe they are already doing this, but this could be a good way to create more value and sell more tickets.
I was at this past weekend’s game in Calgary. It was cold and the game wasn’t great, but it was a good night out for me and a buddy and we both had fun! We are now planning on getting season tickets next year. So, maybe they just need a few more people to see things like me and by word of mouth spread the news of how good a live football game can be …

There is no easy fix. In fact, there may be no fix at all. All they can do is set realistic goals.

10 ideas :

  1. Lock in ST holders (3 years) like Bob Young did when he first bought the Ticats. Then slowly increase the ticket base : 7K ST this year, 8K in 2017, 9K the year after that, and so on.

  2. As I've mentioned many times, use Tannen-Bell's resources to create one off game events :

  • Couples Night - a chance to be on the Amazing Race Canada;
  • Big Brother Canada Night - chosen fan gets on the show and wears an Argo Jersey;
  • Modelling Contract Night - attract pretty young women at a third game;
  • Project Runway Canada Night - a chosen fan will be a model for the fashion on an upcoming show;

These opportunities cost nothing and the third and fourth will attract young, pretty, wanna-be-models/women, which will attract young men.

  1. Have nights where kids can camp and watch movies at BMO - after an Argo game. The team will provide free food, pop, etc.

The Ticats use to do this. Perhaps the TFC will balk but...

  1. Improve the game day experience - silly contests, with small prizes (dinner for 2) for people in the stands, during TV time outs. A football toss. Mascot run. Etc.

The Ticats use to do a lot of this and I loved it.

  1. More partying before the game. Cheap beer. Pretty girls.

  2. Use Tannen-Bell's clout to negotiate one Scholarship, per year, with the local Toronto Universities. Then have a draw at the Ticat/Argo game after Labour Day. Students enter their ticket into a bin and one student, from each school, is chosen in the 4th quarter. Their tuition is free for the year.

  3. At a game in early June, have a night for High School students where a draw is held and one students, per school, wins a paid internship at BCE for the summer - they hire people anyway so why not take it from students who attend the game.

8] Find a Local Sponsor for the Jersey. Not having the 2nd tag is a waste of $$$.

  1. A better schedule and better product on the field - the first is easy but the second is iffy since there will ALWAYS be off years.

  2. Give away Argo merchandise (sweaters, jackets, tickets) to refugees coming into Toronto.

Sponsor a refugee and invite the people of that community to an Argo game : "The Toronto Argos/BCE/LT are sponsoring a Syrian family and we are inviting all members of the Toronto Syrian comminute to attend a game to welcome them." Then provide inexpensive tickets at the local churches/community centers - $20 per adult and $5 per kid.

Whoa where you been at? HAven't seen you on the board for the last month.

I got frustrated with all the trolls and walked away. Then a poster kindly invited me back - he said things are better. TBH, I missed posting.

I continued to posts movie reviews so I wasn't too far away.

Good to see you back Kevin! :thup: :smiley:

I for one think that player turnover is the biggest reason for CFL's decline. Omit The Stamps from this topic. We need to reign in free agency a bit. I've followed the league since I was about seven which is 47 years. When diehards can't name the teams players that a farce.

First off, the return of KevinRiley2 to the forum is much welcomed. We need and missed his honesty, logic and most of all, his kindness. Welcome back. :thup:

Now, I think Argo1873 has hit the nail on the head. I have posted about this many times before. We just get to like and appreciate a player and he's gone...Also, it seems to be normal for a team to dump all their high salary players right after they win the Cup. This is why there are no dynasties anymore.... Fans like to recognize players. I know I do... Contracts should be longer. I don't want to impede anyone's career but the bleeding has to stop. Lately it seems we have become a feeder league for the NFL....The CFL's situation is unique compared to all the other leagues. We are the sole competitor for the NFL. The NBA, MLB and NHL have no other league competing with them directly.

Maybe we should state outright; Here's our contract !
If you don't want to play here, fine.
You won't be accepted back (for a certain time) if you fail
down south.

I don't like the fact there are many guys playing here with the NFL always in the back of their minds. It sure does take away from the devotion for both the player and the fan.

There is a CBA along with a salary cap
You want Contracts longer, the players would want their contracts guaranteed.
The CBA is completely lopsided against the players already because of their dysfunctional union and Ratio rules.
I think the league wants turnover to keep the union weaker, the stars will get their money, everyone else gets leftovers, that is not going to change anytime soon.
The CFL should have the #1 and #2 QB's salary not count towards the cap, they already get special treatment by not counting towards the ratio, so why not have them not count against the cap. put a limit on it, say $500K for both, if you go over the $500K, then whatever you go over, counts towards your cap

More money for the middle of the Cap players may make them stay longer.

Thank you, my friend. :slight_smile: I appreciate it.

Thanks, Johnny. :slight_smile: