How are the negotiations going?


Not too much news these days... does "no news" = "good news" ???


I think so. If anyone threatened to walk away, we'd probably hear about it. And many of the conditions had already been more or less agreed to in some basic form.

I'm not worried because Lansdowne Live was so flexible in the first place. Going into this thing, Ithought that residential was a must from the LL side, but they've since said that they though it was a good idea as a buffer, but if the city doesn't want it, they won't put it in. So it sounds like they continue to be very accomodating.

What about Doucet? Is he still fighting tooth and nail against it? And is he getting any support?


Close to 500 names on his petition.

In other words, "no". :wink: You'll note that some of the comments on the petition are actually AGAINST what he started the petition for, no less. So he's at less than 10% of his desired total despite coverage in both newspapers.

He's still trying though, as is the Glebe Community Association. They're planning rallies and what-not and no doubt will get newspaper coverage if they go through with it, but it seems most people just view them as a nuissance now.

His Facebook page for this now has become a complete mess (look for "Design Lansdowne Together" and have a look at the comments under the pictures). It was mentioned in the papers too so pro-stadium people have gotten on there and debated the points. A couple questioned Clive's call for people to speak out as a call to only speak out if you agree with Clive. Their posts got deleted, which they're not using to prove their point.

Isn't that swell? Clive and his cronies are calling for this to become a transparent, public-driven process yet are deleting posts which state an opposing viewpoint. So if there WERE a design competition, and the majority wished for a stadium, would their opinion get "deleted" as well? Doesn't do much to sell the cause. :lol:

That sounds pretty good to me :slight_smile: Have you made this known to, say, the papers out there? That sort of argument would make a great opinion letter, and would also give it great exposure.


Lansdowne talks require more time

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The Ottawa Citizen
May 28, 2009

[i]Ottawa’s city manager is seeking an extra month to negotiate the deal to develop Lansdowne Park.

In a note to city councillors Thursday, Kent Kirkpatrick says he is seeking another 30 days beyond the 60-day period already approved by council, to negotiate with the Lansdowne Live group.

That group of businessmen has proposed developing Lansdowne Park, bringing in stores, theatres and housing, while reconstructing Frank Clair Stadium for a new Canadian Football League team. The project would be a joint effort with the city, which owns the land.

City council, having received a report that details millions of dollars of work it must do to maintain Lansdowne, approved negotiations on April 22.

Kirkpatrick says the parties have met regularly and an urban design expert has been hired to work on the concept. The extra time will be requested of council on June 10.

The city manager says the additional time would provide more detail and confidence about the project. The report on the talks would go to council on Aug. 26.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen[/i]


This one's more detailed. At least it seems like the Hunt groups and the city staff are SORT OF on the same page.

Extension sought for Lansdowne plan

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Last Updated: 29th May 2009, 3:07am

[i]City staff and Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group have asked city council to extend the 60-day window to reach a redevelopment plan for Lansdowne Park.

City manager Kent Kirkpatrick sent a memo to council yesterday indicating he will seek a 30-day extension, which would defer the tabling of the Lansdowne plan to Aug. 26. A public consultation would follow before council votes on the plan.

Kirkpatrick will provide council with an update on negotiations on June 10.

"Currently, both parties are working out the details of the proposed redevelopment program, as well as the business and financial plans. An urban design expert is also being retained to work with and assist the city and OSEG teams in refining the development concept," Kirkpatrick said in the memo.

But, he added, "all parties to the negotiations agree that an extension to the negotiation deadline is required in order to conclude negotiations and complete the necessary due diligence to ensure the development program is consistent with the conditions set by council."

City staff have also met with key stakeholders, including the National Capital Commission, the Ottawa Farmers' Market and the Glebe Business Improvement Area.

On Tuesday, Bob Brocklebank, president of the Glebe Community Association, met with Kirkpatrick and Kevin McCrann of OSEG at City Hall in hopes of getting them to speak at a public meeting at Lansdowne's Assembly Hall on June 2.

They turned him down, Brocklebank said.

"I can understand their reticence to go public during the process of negotiations," Brocklebank said.

"But I'm surprised at the thinness of their skin, given they are public figures. Before we can have a sensible discussion, we have to be informed of the reality of the negotiations, not the perception."

McCrann said if someone from OSEG is there, it will be to listen, not speak.

They should get an earful. Many Glebe residents were disappointed when city council directed staff to negotiate solely with OSEG on a design for Lansdowne.

OSEG has proposed renovating the Civic Centre for the 67's hockey team and Frank Clair Stadium for a CFL team at a cost of $97 million to the city.

OSEG would put up about $120 million to develop about nine acres along Bank St. that could include a hotel, movie theatre and small retail stores. Development of the rest of the 37-acre park is also up for negotiation.

"Our intention is not to kill the deal, but to ask whether it's the best deal," Brocklebank said.


Well if they put a team back in the Capital; they should consider an expansion franchise coming along soon as well.
Like I said eons ago, put it into a metropolitan centre and they will come, either into Quebec City or Halifax. This 9 team stuff is a joke and it is basically bush league. Get some millionaires to cough up some dough to get us that 10th team in the eastern part of the country!

If it was that easy, it would have been done long ago. It's not like this is the first time the idea has occured to anyone.

The thing with millionaires is they tend to like having all those millions. Until clubs are routinely profitable, there are only so many millionaire willing to lose some of those millions on a hobby.

Of course, there are also no stadiums in Quebec City and Halifax and getting those built doesn't appear to be a lot of fun. So now if you're a millionaire, not only does it look like you'd be blowing millions on a hobby, but you'd have 2-5 five years of dealing with politicians and interest groups in order to even get the whole thing off the ground.

This is why there's very few people lining up to do this. The estimate I've seen about first year cost to the next Ottawa team is in the $20M range (start up, franchise fee and operations). Just isolate the football part of it for a sec. How long do you think it would take for someone to make that up?

All the league can do is make itself an appealing business project. They seem to be on the right track for that.

So basically on the same level as Save the Coyotes...

hmmmm, if they each put in $2.00 towards a design competition, that makes $1000. I wonder what international design company would go for it at that price? :lol:

Ugh. this is a little more than I thought:

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By Patrick Dare, The Ottawa CitizenJune 10, 2009

Ottawa Council on Wednesday somewhat reluctantly gave its staff and the business group that wants to develop Lansdowne Park another 60 days to work out a deal.

Council had in April approved a 60-day negotiation period where the Lansdowne Live group of business people — Bill Shenkman, Jeff Hunt, Roger Greenberg and John Ruddy — would negotiate the redevelopment project for the nearly 40-acre site. The group, also called Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group, wants to building stores, theatres, a hotel and housing, as well as refurbish Frank Clair Stadium for a new Canadian Football League team.

City manager Kent Kirkpatrick told councillors progress is being made, but more time is needed.

“It is very complicated. It is an extreme amount of work,? said Kirkpatrick. Councillor Peter Hume proposed that the negotiations not have a deadline, to ensure that they are thorough and final. But Kirkpatrick said he needs the pressure of a deadline to create pressure “to fish or cut bait.?

Most of the councillors agreed, voting 14-7 to extend the negotiations so that the report goes to city councillors on Aug. 26.

Many councillors want some concrete outcome from the talks because of the rapidly deteriorating state of Lansdowne Park, where the rusting football stands are judged unsafe and other buildings are said to be in need of millions of dollars in repairs over the next decade.

But the project is controversial among some councillors because of the fact that it’s an unsolicited proposal from a developers and would be a sole-sourced deal if approved.

Councillor Clive Doucet — noting that the proposal led the city manager to cancel a design competition on the future of Lansdowne — said the current process is unethical and “a backroom deal? involving a huge public asset.

Councillor Rick Chiarelli said that provincial laws permit such deals and the City of Ottawa has accepted a number of unsolicited proposals from businesses. Chiarelli said Lansdowne needs urgently needs such a project because it is crumbling.

The former regional government of Ottawa-Carleton did not accept unsolicited proposals from business groups in order to avoid accusations of favouritism in contracting.

It also is going to tickle the CFL's deadline again. :roll:

Man, can you imagine if there was NO deadline, as Hume suggested?? This thing would probably literally never end!

I don't think it will be a problem for a matter of just two months. The CFL is 100% behind this initiative in Ottawa. It will also (hopefully) give enough time for the mayor to get back and vote in favour of Lansdowne Live too.

What's also encouraging is that the number of votes in support of Lansdowne hasn't changed since the initial vote to enter into talks with the OSEG group.

I don't think you go through this step unless you'r feeling rather positive.

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City officials lobby Baird for funding to redevelop Lansdowne

By Andrew Duffy, The Ottawa CitizenJune 14, 2009

OTTAWA — A City of Ottawa delegation has met with Transport and Infrastructure Minister John Baird to discuss federal funding for a refurbished sports stadium at Lansdowne Park.

The Parliament Hill lobbying effort took place Thursday, one day after city council approved a 60-day extension to negotiations with Lansdowne Live, the business group that wants to redevelop the historic park.

Councillors Rick Chiarelli and Bob Monette were part of the delegation that also included a representative from Lansdowne Live.

The councillors updated Baird on the Lansdowne proposal and signalled the city’s intent to approach the government for money if and when that project is approved.

Specific dollar figures were not discussed, Chiarelli said, but the councillors did present details of federal grants recently made to other stadium construction projects in Canada.

The $72-million BMO Field in Toronto received $27 million in federal cash. The 20,500-seat city-owned stadium, home to Major League Soccer’s Toronto FC, opened in 2007.

And earlier this year, the federal government also pledged $15 million toward the cost of a new football stadium and amateur sports complex in Winnipeg.

Chiarelli said Baird understands that Ottawa will be looking for a similar grant if the Lansdowne project receives the green light.

“But to him (Baird), this isn’t about a stadium, it’s about Lansdowne and fixing that part of town,? Chiarelli said.

“He seemed open to doing what he can to help.?

Councillor Clive Doucet, a leading critic of the Lansdowne Live proposal, wasn’t aware of the meeting until contacted Saturday by a Citizen reporter. “I’m surprised at my colleagues. I really am surprised that they’re proceeding in this fashion,? Doucet fumed. “It’s more backroom dealing.?

Doucet said it’s inappropriate for councillors to act as if the project has already been approved.

“Doesn’t it strike you as a bit strange that you have two city councillors wheeling and dealing with a minister for a proposal that is unsolicited and that council hasn’t voted on, and that people haven’t seen yet? That bothers me.?

Doucet, whose ward includes the Glebe park, wants the city to scrap its sole-source arrangement with Lansdowne Live and restart a design competition that would open the process to bids by other development groups.

The city halted the international design competition — approved by council in 2007 — after receiving an unsolicited proposal to redevelop Lansdowne from local businessmen John Ruddy, Roger Greenberg, Bill Shenkman and Jeff Hunt.

The group submitted its proposal last October after being granted a conditional Canadian Football League franchise.

Lansdowne Live wants to redevelop the 40-acre site in partnership with the city. The group’s proposal would see it invest $120 million in the construction of a retail and entertainment complex, a hotel and a townhouse development.

The city would pay an estimated $125 million or more for renovations to the stadium and other proposed amenities, including a parking garage, aquarium, ampitheatre, ponds and playing fields.

A rally organized by the Friends of Lansdowne Park is to be held today at 1 p.m. at the Aberdeen Pavilion. The community group wants to broaden the discussion on the park’s redevelopment.

The rally will feature three speakers and a guided tour of the park to highlight its size and potential.

Councillor Bob Monette said this week’s meeting with Baird was largely an information session designed to keep the minister up to date on the Lansdowne file.

Strategically, he noted, it made sense to discuss the project while the federal government is in the process of distributing billions of dollars in infrastructure money.

Any money committed by the government, he said, will make the project that much more affordable for the city.

“I think it could work without federal funding, but if we can get some help from the federal and provincial governments, why not?? Monette said. “It would definitely make it more saleable.?

If negotiations with the city prove fruitful, Lansdowne Live will table a comprehensive redevelopment proposal by Aug. 26. That proposal, Monette said, would then go through public consultations before being voted on by council.

If council approves the project, he said, the city would then approach the federal government with a specific request for financial assistance.

It is far from certain, however, how the process will conclude, Monette said.

“Right now, you’re getting a large group from the Glebe that are trying to protest this, along with Councillor Doucet,? he said. “And you never know. At the end of the day, council might say, ‘No, we’re not going ahead.’ And what that means is that what you see, a concrete park, is probably what you’re going to see for the next two decades.?

“It would be very sad for the city, if at the end of the day it’s put aside.?

Doucet, however, said the process that has brought the city to this point has been flawed “and it just gets worse every day.?

“I don’t understand why we continue to do what no other city in Canada would do: to sole source the disposition of the most important piece of land the city owns.

Well, this may help:

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[i]The Lansdowne Live Group announced Thursday that they have entered discussions with Carleton University to examine the possibility of a revived Carleton Ravens Football team playing home games at the proposed Lansdowne Live stadium.

Carleton has recently been exploring with potential donors the possibility of football returning to campus. The discussions are still preliminary and no timetable has been set for the return of Ravens football.

“Football has not been a part of campus life at Carleton for almost 11 years now, but we have alumni who have been tremendous advocates of bringing a team back to the university,? said Jennifer Brenning, Carleton’s Director of Recreation and Athletics.

“We are still in the early stages of exploring this possibility, particularly how the team would be funded. In addition, we must find a home field for the team and the Lansdowne Live stadium presents an exciting possibility for Carleton.?

“As a Carleton Ravens Football alumnus and a Lansdowne Live partner, it’s a privilege to help facilitate the possible return of the Ravens football program,? said John Ruddy, President of Trinity Development Group and a cornerback for the Ravens in the 1970’s.

“We’re developing a business model that capitalizes on the synergies of our two organizations to lower start-up and operations costs and that’s what makes it possible. The Ravens would utilize our professional training facilities, they’d play in a new, fan friendly stadium, and they’d leverage our marketing and operations staff. At the end of the day, I think those elements would benefit recruiting and player development, and fast-track success on the field.?

Carleton University is currently working with Ruddy and other donors on a business model that would fully fund a football program through outside sources. Once the business model is established the university would be required to apply to the Canadian Interuniversity Sport (CIS) for permission to field a team.[/i]

I need to pass along credit to our own Tony Gabriel for making me aware of the above. He was the one who found the article.

Sounds positive! You have to think universities that don't offer a big program like football that involves quite a few athletes are really losing some students to other universities if they can't play football there. Losing students like this is not good I wouldn't think. Laval found that out, they were losing so many for years.


Hey CRF, doesn’t U of Ottawa already use Frank Clair for home games?

Ha, we went from 10 games per year to close to 20.

Yeah, but it seems they want to build a place of their own. A 5000-seater. So if that goes through, they would no longer use Lansdowne.

But then there was a hint of a soccer team (USL?) being involved in the Lansdowne Live proposal as well. So that would boost the number of events by about another 20. Carleton would bring the whole thing about 35 events a year, not counting concerts.

How swell! No more of that "ten events a year" nonsense. I'm extremely happy for the Glebe residents would were afraid the stadium might be a waste of money. Good for them, now they can sleep better! :thup: Well, after 11PM anyway...

Hopefully there are a couple of open night so that I can continue to lobby for my monster truck idea. :wink: Bring on Grave Digger!!!