Honest Expansion

On that note which the following is tied into, I puposely have laid off posting here and and other forums due to some folks lack of vision when I told of the upcoming 330 million dollar (at that time) renos to BC Place and the fact that the Lions were going to play in a temporary facility. All I head was your nuts and never, voila!!! I could go find the thread to prove my point but I have better things to do with my time. Back then when I heard this I did the research into temp stadiums and also forwarded my info to the league, don't worry I'm not taking credit for the idea they were already on it. I found out that the temp structures unlike Empire Field can have the cocessions and bathrooms built in to the structure and are guaranteed to last 10 years. There are many configs and also roof designs, but just so you know the basic horseshoe config alone costs $4 million to buy, now if you want seats like Empire has your talking $6 Million, again this is just to purchase the structure. Roofs or partial covers cost roughly about the same depending on design. So knowing these hard costs you can put one for $12 million structure cost, not including land costs anywhere in the country. If the 3 levels of government can work together on the land deals and parking, then expansion just got alot easier. You could have a team in Halifax or Moncton in a temp stadium for 10 years to prove itself and meanwhile get a read stadiun built or just bulid an new temp one. The only drawback is hosting Grey Cups, these venues can't get much extra seating per se. I know the league is looking at this very closely for future expaqnsion, so thoughts? Where to go, cities?

The inside scoop I'm hearing is a 20 year plan of growth to 16 teams that focusses on the following cities:

All Population figures are from 2006

Victoria - Metro Area 330,000
Kelowna - 360,000 (Inc. Kamloops, Penticton, Vernon & Merritt)
Saskatoon - Metro area 257,000 (Regina Metro Area Pop is only 195,000)
London - Metro Area 457,000
Quebec City - Metro Area 683,000
Moncton - Metro Area 126,000
Halifax - Metro Area 418,000

Couldn't you have added this to the other 90 expansion threads??? :expressionless:

Here you go: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25006

And not that it really matters, but here are the metropolitan numbers (2006) according to Stats Canada (not sure where you got yours, some of them are off):

Victoria - Metro Area 330,088
OKANAGAN - 350, 927 (Inc. Kelowna, Penticton, Vernon, Osoyoos)
Saskatoon - Metro area 233,923 (Regina Metro Area Pop is only 194,971)
London - Metro Area 457,720
Quebec City - Metro Area 715,515
Moncton - Metro Area 126,424
Halifax - Metro Area 372,858

[url=http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/popdwell/Table.cfm?T=201&S=3&O=D&RPP=150]http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census0 ... =D&RPP=150[/url]

I think that as it becomes more profitable to be an owner in the CFL, the more we'll see potential owners step up and request expansion franchises. Stadiums remain the biggest obstacle to new teams, but with Moncton moving in the right direction, professional football is very possible there. Additionally, Halifax may finally be waking up with their potential bid for the potential landing of the 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup (ref:[url]http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/12/24/ns-halifax-fifa-soccer-144.html[/url]). I think that would be instant rivalry right there, especially if both teams represent provinces as opposed to cities.

I'm not entirely sold on Québec, though. While they no doubt have the population base (7th highest metro base in Canada) and have a near CFL-ready stadium (PEPS holds 12,257) that could be swiftly expanded, there have been numerous efforts to bar the CFL from taking hold. I don't have any articles handy, but from what I have read, not too many are gung-ho about it as the focus seems to be on getting the NHL back.

Kelowna and Victoria are ones I'm wary about just because there isn't an established presence in those areas. There are no CIS teams (although I will acknowedge the CJFL teams there) and no stadiums above 5000 seat capacity. Both cities just don't don't seem like sports towns; no disrespect if anyone comes from those places. And Saskatoon has the Riders and I couldn't see another football franchise being adored as much as that team. London might be a good bet, but I can't say that I have researched them that much, yet.

My ideal short term CFL would have 12 teams, with Halifax and Moncton locks and then either Québec or London as the twelfth.

What most seem to missing is the with the exception of Moncton each of those proposed cities have the population to support a team today!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And that this is a 20 year plan so in 2030 we would have a 16 team league!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But you can't look at population alone, as I would easily pick Moncton over Victoria, despite Victoria having a much higher population. Culture plays a big role in this, and Touchdown Atlantic demonstrated that there is great potential for a New Brunswick franchise. And I would think that 12 teams by 2020 is a very realistic goal, given the growth of the league and our country (despite zero overall growth in the past 55 years or so).

From a BC perspective i do not think Victoria would work.Very little sport history there. But i do think an Okanagan based team in Kelowna would do well and would be embraced by several communities. I’m surprised that no one has seemed to stepped up for a feasibility look as of yet.
Has an international airport, loads of infrastructure, beautiful environment, several viable cities within a 1-2 hour drive, swelling population in warm months, active population.

[b]B.C. Lions
Hamilton Tiger-Cats
New Brunswick Sardines

Hmmm.........works for me.[/b]

:thup: :thup: :thup: :thup:

I needed my laugh for the day. Expansion to Victoria and Kelowna…WIll NEVER happen in the next 30 years.

I still want to know what DISHONEST EXPANSION is???

First, in my opinion, Southern Ontario can only support 2 teams. It doesn't matter what city the teams are playing in, I don't believe that a third team would survive.
There seems to be a debate about weather or not Victoria would be a good location. As always, when talking about-expansion, there has to be a rich owner involved. But what I would like to see, is a couple of pre-season games in Victoria. Just like in Moncton, there needs to be some games played to gage the response. There would need to be a couple of games played, to justify the expense of putting in temporary stands (where ever they decide to play). This would put a end to the debate.

Anyone who thinks the CFL will be viable in Kelowna (population 120,000), Moncton (population 100,000), or in Saskatoon (Saskatchewan corporately CANNOT support a second pro team, even though Saskatoon has 200,000 people compared to Regina's 180,000) is completely out of their mind.

The only three places that are financially viable for the CFL to expand to are Ottawa, Quebec, and Halifax - in that order.

OTTAWA - a million people, and a fan base that will support CFL. It's not the fan's fault that the Rough Riders were run into the ground by the worst string of owners in professional sports history in the 1990s, or that the Renegades were run just as incompetently. The old south-side fans at Ottawa were as passionate as any in the CFL.

QUEBEC - 750,000 people, same size as Winnipeg and Hamilton. Laval is the the power-house of university football, and Quebec LOVES a rivalry with Montreal. Quebec has the population and the football fanbase. Plus, as a patriot, it would be great to see a national sports league in Quebec, thereby uniting them more closely with the rest of Canada.

HALIFAX - with 375,000 people, Halifax has almost twice the population of Regina, and a team there would increase the TV audience in Atlantic Canada for the CFL, something that probably won't be increased as much by new teams in Ottawa and Quebec (whose CFL fans are probably already watching the CFL on TSN). Talk about Moncton is stupid: people aren't going to drive from Fredericton and Halifax to Moncton. The number of Roughrider fans who drive from Saskatoon is vastly exaggerated, and is more urban myth than reality. An Atlantic team needs to be in the only major city in Atlantic Canada, both for gate revenue and for corporate sponsorship reasons. Halifax has triple the population that Moncton has.

Only if Hamilton gets a new stadium, and is so successful that they are holding sell-out crowds, can London (500,000 people) be even remotely considered a CFL possibility. I'm on Vancouver Island, but I don't know if Victoria (325,000) could do so either.

I might hold you to those Moncton comments... we'll just see about that.

I was there last year and the big difference and why Moncton will get a CFL franchise, the people want it and there is political will.
In addition, the mayor announced there were several private rich potential owners wanting to get in.
Go Moncton.

The only 3 legitimate expansion candidates in Canada are Ottawa, Quebec City, and somewhere in Atlantic Canada by reasons already mentioned above. The other markets mentioned are not anywhere near capable of hosting potential teams, nor is there any room for multiple teams in any existing market. Even the three listed above still face very large obstacles in fielding a team. (i.e. no stadium; which is the largest one).

I think it makes little sense to offer crazy ideas about expanding the league to 16 teams. The only two Canadian cities large enough to support a team, year in year out, winning or losing, are Ottaws and Quebec City. That would make a neat five teams per conference and hopefully prevent lousy teams with three or four regular season wins from advancing to semi-final games.

We all know the history of Ottawa’s failures to support their teams through long protracted periods of losing. It would take some seriously deep pockets for an owner to put up with the inevitable lack of competiveness an new Ottawa team would surely have for the first three to five years. That is what sunk them the last two times, remember?

In Quebec city they have no stadium with sufficient capacity for CFL, and I am unaware of any significant support for a team there. They also have little in the way of potential corporate support. Ditto for most of the smaller potential CFL markets listed above. All of the other potential markets are too small to consider building expensive multi-million dollar playgrounds that will sit idle for all but ten or eleven dates a season.

Not sure what some of you guys are smoking but if I see you, be kind and pass it over to me for a couple of puffs.

Dooger in Surrey :cowboy: