hey I think I just found a loop hole

In regards to the US labour laws, I think I found a loop hole.
Now this may seem funny but in a serious sence it could work.
The Windsor thread made me think of this.

Ok If the CFL were to expand to Windsor and play games in a stadium in Detroit, then detroit could have a team without the US labour laws coming into play. OR vice versa

Is this possible? Could it work in other areas?

I don't know, but that's what I was thinking (that you could base a team in Windsor, but play out of Ypsilanti, MI).

Where are you going with this? Are thinking of having other CFL franchises based in Canada but playing in the US? Like, say, the Niagara Falls (Ontario) team playing in Rochester?

It just popped into my head.
Everyone keeps saying "US labour laws this..." and "US Labour laws that..."
So the Windsor thread made me wonder if it was possible cause in a sence, it would loop right around the labour laws.
Niagara Falls playing in Rochester, now that would be interesting.

One flaw in the theory-- half of the players could be denied entry into the US because they are taking jobs away from Americans. Its either changing the labour laws or the CFL gets rid of its import quota, and I dont think either will be happening very soon.

Are you sure there would be a problem with this? If it is the Windsor Wheels, officially based in Canada (front office (also probably practice facilities/training camp -- but not sure if these things matter)), but playing home games out of the Detroit area, would there be an issue?

Lets say that the Windsor team plays half of their games at Ford Field. They would have to abide by the US labour laws. A team going to the states to play would not be a problem, but they would be partially US based and subject to American law. Also take into account the new SMS system. If they had to use strictly American players for 4 or 5 games, how would that affect the cap? The team would have to sign American players for those games. Either the import quota goes, or an exmeption is made for the CFL.

I think Sambo is right... Sorry BB, lol

....BB were you totally baked when this idea came to mind?....please tell me this is so, it provides some justification to the thought process and the reasoning behind going public with it....

You have got it arse backwards fellas, the team would be officially located in Detroit but play their home games out of Windsor. No work visa required, cheaper dollar, means more affordable for the American fan, no border hassel, we let anyone in, etc etc.

Well if they are officially based in the USA, then they would officially have to follow US laws..... How does that get around the quota issue????

Many American companies headquatered in the USA have offices in Canada. This doesnt mean they have to follow USA labour laws up here. They do one of two things, they either set up a Canadian division, or their employees get a work permit, which is what every Import in the league has to do. All any American needs to work in Canada is a work permit.

Well actually you have this wrong. Athletes coming to Canada do not need work permits. The fact still remains that they would be employed by an american company and that that american company as their employer would still have to follow american law!

In fact american courts have even extended american laws to subsideries of american companies and even Canadian companies that do work with the american government. Cuba embargo and the removal of Canadian citizens of particular ancestory from aerospace work are just two examples.

The fact remains that the original poster was suggestng that the team be Canadian based but play in the USA as a means of getting around the quota rule and for the fact that that is where the stadiums are....

Dude, if your not a Canadian citizen, but work in Canada, you need a work permit.

[url=http://www.entercanada.ca/blog/2005/08/no-work-permit-required.html]http://www.entercanada.ca/blog/2005/08/ ... uired.html[/url]

Athletes and Coaches

Athletes and coaches with foreign-based teams can compete in Canada without a work permit. However, professional and semi-professional members working for Canadian-based teams require permits, but the HRSDC confirmation is often waived.

So even though your headquatered in Detroit, you actually work in Canada.

I guess my thinking is, your only going to attract a US billionaire to front money for a new stadium in say Windsor, knowing he is going to draw from the Detroit area fan base to boot.

You were the one that said:

You have got it arse backwards fellas, the team would be officially located in Detroit but play their home games out of Windsor. No work visa required, cheaper dollar, means more affordable for the American fan, no border hassel, we let anyone in, etc etc.

THis was what I was commenting about, if the team was officially located in Detroit AS YOU SAID!!! then they would be playing for an American team, not a Canadian!!!!!
[/quote]

Sambo may be onto something. I met an NHL Linesman in Calgary while on a business trip in the 1990's. He told me that the red tape to get a Green card was unbeleivable. Even when he got the documents, on his USA trips in his first two years, he felt he was constantly under a micro scope.

Its funny Beer Baron, I kind of thought about that one (Loop Hole) when you first made your original post. But Sambo's post, and my 1990's memory kicking in kind of reminded me.

The issue is how do you get around the ratio. If any team were playing their home games in the USA, they would be subject to the US laws and thus Canadian players could not play. But if the same US team were to play there home games in Canada, would the US lasw apply, I think not. So you can have your Canadian players and simply get your imports work permits.

Pig, what you do not seem to get is that if the business is based in the USA, it does not matter if they play in Canada, they still would have to follow US laws!!! They are not exempt from US laws just because some of their activity takes place outside of the country. In a situation like this they would have to be aware of two sets of laws.

The other things was that the original point of this thread was to have a Canadian based team that then went and played their games in the US because that is where the available stadiums are. Now whether this would allow a team to get around the issue of a quota would take a bit of looking into, but I know for sure that if the teams legal entity is based in the USA, they would be under the jurisdiction of the US courts!

What you also do not seem to understand is it is not an issue of whether Canadian players can play in the USA, they can,just look at the NHL. The issue is whether it would be possible to enforce a quota that says a certain percentage of the players playing on a US team have to be Canadian. Based on the previous experience with US expansion, it would not be possible to enforce that rule!

Let me lay this out for you:

  1. If the only stadiums available to play in are in the USA, then it does not matter if the team is actually head quartered in Canada, they have to hire American players first before they can hire Canadian beacuse they play in the USA. There is no way around this unless there is a shortage of qualified American players which there is not. The hockey example will not work here because there are more than enough American born football players qualified to play. There are not enough American born hockey players qualified to fill out all the roster spots in the NHL. But really thats not the problem, the problem is for a big league like the NHL the US will waive any restrictions, however the CFL is seen as a competitor to the NFL thus they will enforce the laws. So this approach will not work.

We have already seen this with the Canadian farmers who used to go down south every year to custom combine for the Americans. The US government put a stop to this by saying you can still bring your equipment down but you have to hire all Americans to operate it.

  1. The alternative, is to flip the equation around, and get a US billionaire, not unlike what Asper has proposed in Wpg, to front the money for a new stadium. Windsor is the perfect location for a wealthy owner from Michigan to do this. All games are then played in Canada, no restrictions on Canadian players, and all that would be required for American players is a work permit, because they are playing all games in Canada, they work in Canada not the USA. The incentives for the American owner is the ability to draw from both the Canadian and US markets. With the exchange rate, it should be attractive for the American fan. Makes me wish I was an American billionaire, I would build it, sounds like a cash cow to me.

whats wrong with all american rosters for U.S expansion teams, anyways, ? deve;ope the talent pool for the whole league, IE - Gold Miners!

Because all-american rosters would dominate their Canadian counterparts. The best players, in general, in the CFL are Americans and an all-american team would have a definite advantage over a current CFL (non-import laden) roster.