Here come the NIMBYs:


This one’s going to p*ss off CRF :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Lansdowne Live critics plan Tuesday night meeting

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By Jake Rupert, The Ottawa Citizen
June 1, 2009 4:01 PM

[i]OTTAWA — Dissatisfied with the city’s public consultations on the future of Lansdowne Park, a group calling itself the “Friends of Lansdowne Park? is having its own session Tuesday night.

The group is concerned that the city is deep into negotiations with a group of Ottawa-based developers on the future of the park and there hasn’t been any public consultation on what the developers plan to do. They also say there is a lot of confusion over what the developers propose to do with the park and the financial aspects of their plan.

“There are a lot of misconceptions out there,? said group member Julie Harris. “Many people think the developers have offered to renovate the stadium. In fact, the city is considering giving away nearly 10 acres of public land for a shopping complex, while taxpayers foot the entire $125-million bill for renovating the stadium.?

The group is holding a meeting at 7:30 p.m. in the Assembly Hall in the Civic Centre at Lansdowne Park. The public is invited to go, and there will be information tables set up by participating groups.

The night is to feature urban planners, architects, municipal government experts, and business experts, including Caroline Andrew, of the School of Political Studies at the University of Ottawa, Ian Lee from the Sprott School of Business at Carleton University and Ottawa architect Robert Webster.

The future of Lansdowne was to be decided by public consultation and a competitive process, but it was stopped when the developers made an unsolicited proposal with their ideas for the park and Frank Clair Stadium.

The developers — Roger Greenberg of Minto, John Ruddy of Trinity, and Bill Shenkman of the Shenkman Corp., working with Jeff Hunt of the Ottawa 67’s junior hockey team — want the city to fix the crumbling Frank Clair Stadium for a conditional Canadian Football League franchise they have won. They estimate this will cost $97 million; the city estimates $125 million. They also want the city to build a roughly $25-million parking garage, and the city to pay for any community spaces to be included in the park.

They propose a mixed-use development that would include retail and entertainment space, a hotel, office space, and some residential buildings, at a cost of $120 million to them.

City council approved sole-sourced negotiations with the group on its plans, and the city manager is hoping to report back on a potential deal later in the summer.

All of this has been done without public consultation, and the group feels this is wrong.

“There has not been a single public meeting on the (developers’) proposal," said Archie Campbell, president of Ottawa’s Federation of Citizens’ Associations. “We think it’s important to get citizen input now.”

© Copyright © The Ottawa Citizen[/i]

Allow me to vent........

People like this...................and tree huggers, and climate change hysterics, the anti-globalization crowd, and other odd assorted loonies of the left.....

Would have, in prehistoric times, been out there protesting against the invention of the wheel.

Gad, these people are such losers…

There is a three week public consultation phase after the negotiations. There has yet to be one because the information, to this point, is incomplete.

They so badly want to make this whole thing look crooked, but no one is listening. I’ll be surprised if there are 20 people at this circle jerk. I’ve seen some of the speakers and it’s all the same people we’ve already heard from; Glebe resident who overvalue their importance.

Hahaha, man, that rant was all I dreamed it would be :slight_smile:

Seriously, this group needs to come up with some new material. Not even exaggerating here; we've heard it ALL before. If it wasn't found to be persuasive then, what could possibly make it more persuasive after the city blows a pot of money negotiating the finer details, and the bid is further taylored to the City's specifications?


A reply by Roger Greenberg. This guy is awesome, I wanna take him home and adopt him lol.

Transforming Lansdowne is a process, but it's coming

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By Roger Greenberg, The Ottawa Citizen
June 2, 2009 9:09 AM

[i]Every day, I'm asked by an ever increasing number of people: "How are the negotiations with the city going?" And every day, I simply respond: "We're making good progress." Transforming Lansdowne Park is a process and we are doing our best to see it through to a successful conclusion.

The Glebe Community Association and Councilor Clive Doucet, vocal opponents of Lansdowne Live, have organized a public meeting on the future of Lansdowne for this evening and they've invited our group to participate. A Lansdowne Live representative will be there, but only as an observer.

Why? It is our understanding that the purpose of the meeting is to debate city council's decision to halt the international design competition for Lansdowne and to enter into discussions with the Lansdowne Live group.

However, council has already made these decisions and we see no point in debating them further. Public discussions will take place when we have produced a more detailed plan with city staff.

Negotiations between the Lansdowne Live group and city staff are aimed at presenting city council with an agreement in principle for the revitalization of Lansdowne Park to accommodate an outdoor stadium, a renovated Civic Centre, the Farmers' Market, trade shows and businesses that mesh well with the Glebe and will benefit from the other activities on the 40-acre property. The agreement in principle will also deal with the land that is currently the back parking lot behind the Aberdeen Pavilion, Coliseum Building and stadium; future site management; and the development of a financial model that protects taxpayer interests.

Some might think the majority of this work was completed during the process that led to council's approval of a motion to negotiate a deal in principle with us. Indeed, a lot of work went into the documentation of that initial vision of what Lansdowne Live could be -- studies were undertaken, renderings were drawn, alternatives were proposed -- but there was no mandate to proceed with detailed negotiations.

City staff had looked into whether or not council should consider taking a closer look at the Lansdowne Live proposal and, if so, which elements might be missing or need to be more closely scrutinized, and which were "must haves" as opposed to "nice to haves." That's really where we are today. There is a stack of issues to examine and drill-down upon, and we are diligently working our way through the pile with city staff.

Another common question we're getting these days pertains to the mood at the bargaining table. Is it confrontational? Is it cool but civil? Is it friendly?

I guess the best way to describe the atmosphere is businesslike. Both sides are working very hard toward reaching an agreement in principle that makes sense for the taxpayers and the Lansdowne Live group. There are many issues that have to be dealt with before we're ready to propose a deal for public scrutiny and council's consideration. And that is why the city manager advised council late last week that he will be requesting an extension of 30 days for the delivery of his report.

As part of this process, other conversations are taking place that may eventually be more newsworthy than the status of negotiations.

For example, to better reflect some of the issues that have been raised by community groups and private citizens, we are in the process of modifying our initial designs for the site. In some cases, those changes will be profound and when the new design concepts are ready, they'll be posted on our website,

Another encouraging development is that we've been approached by several local businesses and non-profit organizations about the potential for becoming part of Lansdowne Live. These groups are very excited about the possibility of being part of a vibrant people place and they want to get their names in the queue. I would encourage other organizations with similar sentiments to do the same.

We've also had some good developments on the sports side of our operation. Discussions have commenced to ensure the Lansdowne Live stadium will be a busy place for fans of professional and amateur football, and fans of other field sports, especially high-calibre soccer. Again, details on those developments will be released when we get a little further into the process.

So that's how things are going. We're working away with city staff to reach an agreement that we hope meets the concerns and exceeds the expectations of city council and the public at large. When all is said and done, it will ensure we transform Lansdowne into a gathering place we can all enjoy and be proud of.

Roger Greenberg is one of the four partners involved in the Lansdowne Live project, and chairman and CEO of Minto Group.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen[/i]

Greenberg is da man!

Nice hint at a future soccer team there too. I detest soccer and think their local fans have been complete pricks, but I would welcome a team with open arms because one of the arguments against a stadium by the nearby residents was that it made no sense to have a stadium for “only” ten events a year.

Well, here’s about 20 more then! Enjoy the tunes, geezers!

Sounds like Mr. Greenberg has a lot of class and knows what he is talking about and really wants to work with council. Nice! Yes, I continually come across CFL haters on the net from soccer people in this country, it's sad that they see the CFL as some sort of a threat to soccer, I don't get it. They are too thick to understand you don't need a SSS to be able to play soccer and want to blame the CFL for not getting their soccer team. They are a joke to me these complete whiners. I'll never go to a soccer game in this country in my life if I know these whiners are going to be there.


Seems like a constructive meeting :roll: :

Group calls for city to halt talks with Lansdowne Live backers
Friends of Lansdowne Park seek restart of competitive bid process

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By Joanne Chianello, The Ottawa Citizen
June 2, 2009 11:02 PM

[i]OTTAWA-It was standing room only in the Assembly Hall in the Civic Centre on Tuesday night as more than 300 residents came out in support of a bid to halt the Lansdowne Live proposal.

A group calling itself Friends of Lansdowne Park wants the city to step back from its negotiations with a group of Ottawa-based developers and return to a competitive, accountable process.

“It is a bad proposal,? panelist Ian Lee said to thunderous applause.

Lee, of the Sprott School of Business at Carleton University, added: “If the deal is so good, why has it not been put to a competitive bid??

The group is expected to follow Tuesday night’s meeting with a rally scheduled for June 14.

The panel representing Friends of Lansdowne Park told the overwhelmingly supportive crowd that it was concerned many citizens were unaware that the Lansdowne Live proposal would cost taxpayers more than $125 million just to renovate Frank Clair Stadium and the Civic Centre arena and to build two parking structures.

The group is also concerned that the public has not been allowed to see the developer’s detailed proposal for Lansdowne Park.

Other speakers at Tuesday night’s meeting included Bob Brocklebank, president of the Glebe Community Association, Caroline Andrew, a political science professor at the University of Ottawa, and Robert Webster, representing the Ottawa Regional Society of Architects.

The panelists, and most of the 20 or so people who commented publicly at the meeting , questioned city council’s so-called sole-source negotiations with the developers.

“If you have a flawed design process, you will have a flawed product,? Webster said.

The future of Lansdowne Park had been the subject of an international design competition, but that process was stopped when the developers brought forward their proposal.

The developers — Roger Greenberg of Minto, John Ruddy of Trinity, and Bill Shenkman of the Shenkman Corp., together with Jeff Hunt of the Ottawa 67’s junior hockey team — have secured a conditional Canadian Football League franchise they want to bring to Lansdowne Park. However, they want the city to pay for fixing up the dilapidated Frank Clair Stadium.

They are also proposing, among other things, to build — on land they would essentially lease for free for 30 years from the city — a mixed-use development that would include retail and entertainment venues plus hotel, office and residential space.

The fact that a CFL team is such a key part of the proposal also has Friends of Lansdowne Park worried.

“The market has told us football will not succeed at the location,? Lee said, referring to the demise of the Ottawa Rough Riders in 1996 and the Ottawa Renegades in 2006.

“The risk (of the proposal) is falling overwhelmingly on the taxpayer. As a business-loan proposal, I would reject it.?

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen[/i]

Mutual admiration society.

I have to admit to being surprised at the numbers though. I didn't think there'd be a tenth of that.

Still, they're arguing something which is not final and basing themselves on dated information. Greenberg's already said that the proposal's changed a fair amount. I doubt anyone will give them much attention.

Look, I don't expect everyone to love football nor to have people with money understand the culture of the game and how it relates to the culture of Canada from a history and tradition point of view etc. These people have expensive homes relatively near what is a stadium and I can appreciate they don't want this, fair enough.

In the end, some 30 people or 300 people at a meeting while expressing their concerns and that, unless they step up to the plate with some money, won't have the voice that people with money and willing to spend it ie. the LL business group, won't be all that important. This from what I can tell is more than a football stadium, it is the environment of the area with small businesses developing etc. and the park itself. Money talks, anyone with one brain cell can say open it up to a design competition or don't build a stadiu, big deal, show me da money honey! And Lansdowne Park, whatever way you want to look at it, needs money for upgrades from somewhere, stadium or no stadium. They even need millions to tear down FCS I think.


Yawn. Doucet & Co are getting desperate, trying to paint this project bad by associating it with bad projects they've been part of in the past. My money says Doucet compares Lansdowne Live with 9/11 by friday.

Whistleblower cries foul over deal
Says sole-source approach to Lansdowne proves Ottawa has failed to learn from sponsorship scandal

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By Patrick Dare, The Ottawa Citizen
June 8, 2009 11:18 PM

[i]OTTAWA — By only dealing with one potential development group for Lansdowne Park, the city is showing it hasn’t learned the lessons of the federal sponsorship scandal, says a prominent Canadian whistleblower.

Allan Cutler, the former federal public servant who is credited with trying to stop corrupt federal spending in Quebec in the government of Jean Chrétien, said Monday that the city’s sole-source approach with the Lansdowne project “has the optics of favouritism.? He said it gives a potentially lucrative public project to one business group without competition, signalling to the world that the city is “open to influence.?

The city is negotiating with a group of Ottawa businessmen, who call their project Lansdowne Live, over a plan to redevelop Lansdowne Park, a public property of almost 40 acres in the Glebe. Plans include everything from stores and theatres to a hotel and a refurbished Frank Clair football stadium. It’s a project that could involve hundreds of millions of dollars in public and private funds.

Last year, the city manager cancelled an international design competition for Lansdowne Park without the prior authorization of city council, but councillors went along with it. Capital ward Councillor Clive Doucet, who brought Cutler to a press conference on the matter Monday, wants to scrap the sole-source deal with the Lansdowne Live group — developers Roger Greenberg, John Ruddy and Bill Shenkman and Ottawa 67’s owner Jeff Hunt — and restart the design competition.

The city administration has justified the deal by saying the arrangement with the Lansdowne Live group is a potential partnership, rather than a procurement. But Cutler said even if it is a partnership, there must be an open and fair competition to see who becomes the partner.

Otherwise, he said, the city is retreating to the days of Tammany Hall New York politics, in which people got public business or work purely based on connections. “It’s dangerous.?

Cutler said the Lansdowne Live project could be good, but there’s no objective way of knowing in the current city process.

“Let’s do it right. It could be a lot cheaper? We don’t know. It could be a lot better? We don’t know,? said Cutler, who now runs his own consulting firm.

John Reid, president of the Canadian Advanced Technology Alliance, said the city’s Lansdowne project is “an example of what should not be done? with public business.

In a time when businesspeople and public officials around the world can almost instantly learn news of such cases, he said, it’s important that Canada’s capital show that it’s open to business and will deal with competitors with an even hand.

“Is it open or is it closed?? said Reid, saying the Lansdowne file “doesn’t pass the test.?

“This is very serious in terms of messaging,? he said, noting that many Canadian technology firms are attempting to win contracts from American governments.

Ian Lee, a business professor at Carleton University, said sole-source contracting by governments “is a type of corruption? that will harm Canada’s otherwise good reputation for fairness. He said one of the fastest ways of developing corruption is through bad contracting practices.

Lee added that such a practice in Canada’s capital city is “sabotaging? the efforts of Prime Minister Stephen Harper and other federal leaders to stop the “Buy American? policies that are on the rise in the United States, where governments are looking to spend money with home-grown firms in the face of a recession.

Council approved 60 days of negotiations with Lansdowne Live on April 22 and city manager Kent Kirkpatrick recently sent notice to councillors that staff needs more time.

Council is to decide on Wednesday whether to allow the extra time. The negotiations are being conducted in private.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen[/i]

Wow...Talk about blowing things out of proportion.

The only way they would have any kind of a case was if the city had taken the deal immediately. But because they went about 18 months with all their reviews and a partial design competition, Doucet and his admirers can hee-haw all they want, the fact is, no one else showed an interest.

LL, and to a lesser extent Melnyk, showed that you don't need a detailed process in place to submit a proposal. No one can claim that they were prevented from doing so until the time the city decided to focus on Lansdowne Live.

What are you supposed to do when you only get one offer? Reject it so it doesn't look like favouritism? That's just dumb.

Just another attempt to derail the process by Clive Doucet. More red herrings, more partial facts. These people arguing against Lansdowne Live are always "invited by Clive Doucet" to speak. No surprise there.

I'm a little surprised with one of the latest Glebe naysayers - Ian Lee. Lee is a professor at the Carleton University school of business and one of my former professors. From a cost-benefit perspective, his arguments only address specific (sometimes 'perceived') costs and he, along with the GCA town criers, leave out much of the benefits in their arguments. Lee should know better; BUT, he is a Glebite trying to protect his 'turf'.

The process currently being followed by City Council is a legal one and the reasons for going this route have been stated publicly, ensuring a transparent process.

AFAIK, the process is going well. I believe that they need to make a decision today regarding the 30 day negotiation extension. I don't think they'll have a problem extending it.

With the CFL preseason fast approaching, I am getting more excited about seeing a revamped Frank Clair stadium.


More from the mentally-disabled Friends of Lansdowne:

Baird best to back off Lansdowne Live: critics
Minister gives wrong message by ignoring issues of process, weekend rally told

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By David Gonczol, The Ottawa Citizen
June 15, 2009 12:01 AM

[i]OTTAWA — Opponents of the Lansdowne Live project say there could be political and legal fallout if Transport and Infrastructure Minister John Baird promises federal money to the project. News that Baird sat down with some Ottawa city councillors and a Lansdowne Live representative last week hung over a rally of about 500 people who want to see the redevelopment project tendered.

David Chernushenko, a former deputy party leader of the national Green party and a community activist in Ottawa, addressed the rally beside the Aberdeen Pavilion Sunday afternoon and later said the effort to secure federal funds for Lansdowne Live was a dangerous move for the minister.

“I wouldn’t want to be a higher level politician in any way endorsing this process. I think they are playing with political fire. Do you really want to lose an election?? said Chernushenko.

“It would be ill-advised for him (Baird) to do anything but insist on an open and transparent process.

“No councillor should at this point, while things are in negotiation, be going to a higher source and speaking on behalf of council, on behalf of the citizens of Ottawa.

“Don’t have meetings to talk about this issue until the process is worked out.?

Lorne Cutler, president of the Hampton Iona Community Group, who was master of ceremonies for the rally, pointed to the legal difficulties currently facing the sole-sourced project to upgrade Gatineau’s Robert Guertin Arena.

Two Gatineau businessmen have launched a lawsuit against the public-private partnership because the process was not tendered. Nathalie Normandeau, Quebec’s municipal affairs minister, has since said that the current proposal for the arena would have to be scrapped because there had not been a call for tender.

“Because this is public space there should be a process to vision what the citizens want this space to be and whether it’s an Ottawa-wide competition or a Canadian competition or an international competition, the key is that it should be a public discussion with a public competition,? said Cutler.

Chernushenko said Baird’s involvement creates the impression that a “very clear ethical standard? is being breached.

“Does one small group of individuals have the door open wide for them to come through with a process and have access to public money that you would not have made open to any citizen??

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen[/i]

I'm sure Baird must be terrified by Chernushenko's warning of a potential loss of an election. Chernushenko couldn't even win his own party's leadership and that was basically a two-person race.

I wish I could've been there I would've made Mr. Lee from Sprott business school (by the way i have a question for him, if he's such a good business man why is he still in a Sprott business school in Ottawa?) look like a goofball.

Two Ottawa teams failed in Ottawa? No way. Everyone who follows CFL across Canada knows that it was poor ownership, and a badly in need of repair stadium that was the problem. Also if he's such a smart businessman he would know that Ottawa would make their money back on it no problem. I mean hasn't it made money for the city being there since 1908!?!?!

-The five grey cup games alone brought in TONNES of money to the city.

  • I mean lets REALLY THINK about this. The Ottawa Rough Riders were there from 1908-1996, and again for a few years in a dilapated stadium getting 20,000 people and its not a football city?!?!

  • What about the rolling stones concert, that must've brought in millions to the city, but they y'know what Mr. Lee and the NIMBY's that doesn't matter does it? But I guess cuz it's not soccer, it's not good to the "higher-class of metropolitans like Micheal Ignatieff ahaa" (doing the voice of the silly commercial not taking sides in that just trying to make a point) who think football is barbary, its not a high class sport that nobody in Canada is hardly interested in like Soccer.

The stadium more than paid itself off 20 years ago, and now they're gonna just let that money maker rot? How bloody stupid can people be?

The fact that they've waited this long has already cost them more money, but not as much as building a brand new stadium do they want to spend more money is that a problem? 125 million not enough for a historic league in Canada to be in the Nations Capital? I don't get it.

Took Washington a long time to build a baseball stadium for "America's game". They have had baseball teams come and go in that town quite a bit. Just because these are capital cities doesn't mean there is necessarily the will power or motivation to build a stadium.

Now their stance is no longer that they are opposed to Lansdowne Live or a stadium, but only that they want to make sure that it's the best deal for a city.

The problem with that is that you can know far better how much a stadium will cost than what kinds of revenues it'll generate over the next decade plus. Any renovation which includes a stadium will come with a huge price tag. But we can't anticipate a concernt like the Stones or some event like the Francophone games, FIFA, etc if we don't know that they'll be available to have. For now, the only one we know is the Grey Cup in 2014.

To my surprise though, they do make reference to the fact a stadium was identified as a requirement in the last competition. However, that was before Melnyk and before everyone got chubbies about the possibility of building it at Bayview. So I'm positive that if there were to be a relaunch of the design competition, we would start from scratch under the pretense that these new factors have to be taken into consideration.

Have a link?

Not within reach. I recall that Brocklebank saying that they weren't necessarily opposed to Lansdowne Live in an article, but the stuff about acknowledging the stadium in the compeition are from comments to article, or Doucet's Facebook group, that sort of thing. It wasn't in any article that I'm aware of.