hehehe, CFL 3, Melnyk 1


The city will not be able to draw from federal funds designated for public recreational facilities in order to get a stadium built. Any funding the city designates for a football / soccer stadiumwould have to come out of the amount designated for general public works, and so must compete against public transit, etc.

Advantage: Jeff Hunt & co.

Lansdowne Park in it's current state costs the city millions per year. A choice to support Lansdowne would mean the city could use turn those annualized payments into a loan, and put that bulk amount toward the stadium renovation. There would thus be less of a need to dip into the public works funds.

If they go with Melnyk's idea, the city would need to take all public funding out that fund, leaving less for other public works projects. Furthermore, they'd still be stuck paying millions of dollars for the empty shell of Frank Clair stadim in the middle of a parking lot.

On to the article:

No big pot of money for a new stadium, councillors told

[url=http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/money+stadium+councillors+told/1324330/story.html]http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/mon ... story.html[/url]

By Patrick Dare , The Ottawa Citizen
February 24, 2009

[i]OTTAWA — Any sports stadium project in Ottawa may have to compete against other municipal projects such as public transit for funding from the federal government, the city’s manager said Tuesday.

Kent Kirkpatrick told councillors that, contrary to what was initially believed, there’s no separate pot of money for large recreation projects such as building a professional sports stadium, whose price tag would easily top $100 million.

The federal government has a $500-million fund for municipal recreation facilities but it’s aimed at smaller projects, such as paying for a new arena ice surface.

Kirkpatrick said that he is working hard to get clarity from the federal government and get instructions on how to apply for financial assistance from other pots of funds. But he said it appears that any sports stadium project would be tossed in with the many other projects municipalities ask for help on, such as transit, road building, bridges and community centres.

Councillor Peter Hume, chairman of city council’s planning and environment committee, said he was surprised and disappointed by the news. He said it was “not a winning proposal? to tell citizens of Ottawa that they have to choose between building a new sports stadium and proceeding with the city’s new transit plan.

“This is a significant twist,? said Hume.

The planning committee was receiving an $81,000 report by the Corporate Research Group on the whole question of whether and where to build a new stadium. That report identifies 23 possible locations for a new stadium.

The city already has two unsolicited proposals from business groups for stadium projects. The group of developers behind one called "Lansdowne Live!" wants to redevelop the city’s 40-acre Lansdowne Park. Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk wants to see a stadium for Major League Soccer built beside Scotiabank Place, as part of a major package of retail, office and residential building in Kanata.

The Melnyk proposal is for the three levels of government to build the soccer stadium. The Lansdowne Live proposal does not require federal government funding but many city councillors believe the project can never proceed without help from the province and the federal government.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen[/i]

We have a transit plan?

Seriously, what a crock. This City Council cannot come to terms with a solid transit plan. By the time they do actually come to grips with what they want in a transit system, federal funding will be available for that project. Let’s concentrate on the here and now - building a new Frank Clair Stadium at Lansdowne Park.

Transit is such a joke in this city. With the recent strike, it will take years for the ridership to build its numbers back up to a level where we would actually need a mass transit rail line.

I don't get it. One proposal NEEDS all three levels of government to build their stadium. The other, it's just assumed that the project will eventually need help. One has Melnyk asking for public money, the other has Hunt saying he'll do what he can to take care of it himself. How is there even a comparison?!? How could city council think, "Stadium A will definitely cost us a lot of money, whereas Stadium B might cost us a little bit of money. Let's go with Stadium A." ...

Jeff Hunt was on CFRA radio at noon today "the Lunch bunch" show. He said that right now Landsdowne is costing the city $4 Million a year in maintenance.
His proposal will see the city making $2 to $2.5 Million a year in revenue form the retail/commercial proposal alone. The total revenue for the city over the 30 year lease would be $100 million!!
Lets get on with this thing.

Interesting mike. I wonder if this is actually a bit too simple for people to digest :wink: , sometimes people want complexity and analysis after analysis to say, ok, it'll work to make them feel they are ones making it happen. :wink:

It comes down to the fact that city politicians just don't want to see the Private sector taking over and running a site that has always been run by the city. Even if its proven that this private consortium could make millions for the city the local politicians don't want to lose control and would rather lose $4million a year.

Is that honestly the case? Or are you just saying that tongue-in-cheek?

I'm sure it's at least a part of it. The land is city-owned and treated like a turd, but when someone comes along to do something with it, suddenly it's our "jewel" and untouchable.

Clive Doucet, because it's in his ward, is very protective of it, yet I'm not familiar with any action he's ever taken to get the place fixed up adequately.

During the first year of the Renegades, the lower southside sound system didn't work. The solution? Blast the northside one loud enough so people across the field can hear it. :? They had to cut that out after complaints from the north side that the announcers were way too loud. Never did fix the southside speakers though... :roll:

So they would rather lose $4M a year on a decrepit site that's rarely used, than have someone pay and fix it up for them? I understand wanting to hold onto something, but if you're not going to do anything but spend money on it with no return ... is it worth it to the city? And is there something in the Hunt proposal that would let the city "keep" Lansdowne as theirs? (Not that I'd blame him if there wasn't ... for $100M, I'd want to own it, too.)

Hmmm...Crazy enough to work??

[url=http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAndRegion/2009/02/26/8547881.html]http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAnd ... 47881.html[/url]
The federal minister responsible for handing out money to cities for infrastructure projects says he’ll “make sure Ottawa gets its fair share.?

But Ottawa won’t get any money for an open-air stadium until it asks, said Ottawa West-Nepean MP John Baird, who is the minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

“I’ll put them at the front of the line,? he said. “Just come to my office.?

Baird said he has had conversations with the two local groups competing to build an open-air stadium in Ottawa, and told them it would be something he could support, but the city has to make a decision before money is allocated.

“Both the soccer and football proposals are on city land,? Baird said. “I can’t approve them because they’re not on my land. I’m just the guy with the money.?

Ottawa Sports & Entertainment Group, led by four local businessmen, wants to renovate Frank Clair Stadium to house a CFL team. Senators Sports & Entertainment wants to build soccer-specific stadium for an MLS team near Scotiabank Place in Kanata. Both proposals would require about $100-million in funding shared among the public and private sectors.

The province also appears to be on board, but is also waiting to hear from the city.

“We have received no indication that the city of Ottawa has a firm proposal,? said Ottawa West-Nepean Liberal MPP Jim Watson, who is the Minister of Municipal Affairs. “If city council selects a project, the province of Ontario would be prepared to look at the project as part of any future capital funding in conjunction with the federal government and the city of Ottawa. We would need a very clear idea of how high a priority a stadium is with council and until that time it’s difficult to speculate.?

On Tuesday, city manager Kent Kirkpatrick shocked the city’s planning committee by saying any money the feds gave to a stadium would have to compete with other requests for infrastructure money, such as roads, sewers and transit.

That shouldn’t be a surprise, Baird said.

“The city has to make decisions just like every family makes,? Baird said. “How much do we spend on vacation? How much do we spend on groceries??

But that doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t eat and take a trip. You just have to set your priorities and see how much money is available.

And the city won’t know how much money is available until it knocks on John Baird’s door.

Oh, the city keeps most it. I think they’d only lose the part that becomes residential/commercial. They’d even retain the land the stadium is built on, if I recall correctly. It’s partially addressed in the very first sentence of their FAQ.

What exactly are you looking for from the City of Ottawa?
The City of Ottawa owns Lansdowne and will continue to do so. We are simply asking them to come to the table, take a look at what we’re proposing and see how it fits with their vision for a smart growth city. At the end of the day, we want to come to an agreement that protects public ownership, enhances public investment and provides a workable business model for private investment.

Rat bastards!

Those that are complaining are saying that we haven’t taken enough time to determine specific wants and needs for the place, ask for proposals and review them. The problem is that you’ll never reach a concensus as to what the place should be, so you could debate it until you cough blood and never get anywhere.

Something else that Doucet never addresses is that in the 18 months or so since Hunt proposed something, no one has been prevented from submitting a bid of their own. But no one has. So since he’s just DYING to look at other proposals, I guess we should just sit around and hope that one day, someone else steps up. Because people willing to pony up 120M while NOT demanding ownership are around every corner.

According to John Baird in today's Sun the city WILL be able to draw from the federal funds. He's just surprised the city hasn't asked!!

[url=http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAndRegion/2009/02/27/8550456-sun.html]http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAnd ... 6-sun.html[/url]