Heated TSN Flag Debate

The BC - Sas was a great finish. At least for us Lions fans.

Anyway, as for the heated debate during the game ( Suitor kinda lost it at the end ) there are 2 ways to look at it.

First , does it disrespect the officials enough for a flag motion objection conduct ?

Second, what about the double standard ? When a pass is incomplete and the DB gives the old incomplete motion .

Or when the D makes a stop on a 3rd down gamble or recovers a fumble . They make that turnover motion.

Point is what is the difference between these three ? Only one is a penalty .

I feel that penalty calls should be on if it interferes with the other player making a play. Not hurting an officials ego flag.

However, if it is going to be kept it should not be a full 15 yard objection conduct penalty. It should only be 5 yards and called a gesture penalty.

Let the players play. Nothing wrong with a little emotion.

or how about when a reciever holds his arms up in the air, looks around for a flag and stomps his feet when there is none?

I agree with you.
I dont like that new rule

I also dont like the no call for a measurement rule...Is it a yard or a yard and a half.
The coach needs to know exactly how much they need

Come on guys, this pulling the flag motion is simply a non verbal way of telling the refs you think they missed a call....it's always deserved an OC flag and this should have been done a few seasons ago.

What's really stupid about it is that the refs from the east have their flags in their front pockets (a hold over from the 50's and 60's) so to half the officials in the league it looks like a player has a problems with his hemorrhoids...

I agree, let the players play, 5 yard penalty and it should be on any play where a player is trying to tell the ref what should have been called.

I agree that this OC rule is excessive.
I don't really think it should be a penalty at all.

Conversely, receivers seem to think that any time they are covered well there should be a penalty, which is just as annoying.
It reminds me of soccer defenders who raise their arms for offside any time the ball gets behind them and an attacking player receives it. The defender just looks like a whiner to me. But, they don't get penalized for whining.

I don't mind the rule. The focus should be on the players playing, not trying to ref.

I suspect that once players stop this form of OC, nobody will much mind it being out of the game.

Plain and simple, the new OC rule sucks so much the CFL should make an amendment tomorrow.

Players are instinctually going to make a motion with their hands. It has nothing to do with disrespect. It's just human nature.

Also, for failed offensive pass interference challenges, the refs should have the option of adding a delay of game penalty, if it isn't already there. The offending team should also lose their other challenge. The league doesn't need poor sports challenging every play their don't like.

Why wouldn't you just post this under the existing thread on penalty flags ? Or do we need a new topic thread for every flag thrown this year ? :roll:

I was considering that.

However, the other thread was all flags on everything.

This is a specific topic not about to many flags , but a specific debate started on the TSN panel and rebutted by Glen Suitor.

My problem with the flag motion has nothing to do with the maturity level or the players or refs. If a ref is swayed or is offended by someone making the throwing motion, that I think is a sign of a poor official. Conversely if a player wants to whine about calls that aren't even close, then whatever, it makes you look like the idiot.

My problem is that, this could easily be a motion to tell his coach to throw the challenge flag on PI call near the end of the game (where time is critical), and if an official is standing between the coach and player, he can throw a OC call for something that wasn't even directed at the ref.

Like a ref getting duped by a defender taking a dive on a punt return, and altering the outcome of a national championship?

yeah I went there, yeah it still stings, and yeah the call was BS and the entire country knows it.

Different set of circumstances. One occurred during the play, and is a judgement call with clear consequences. I don't begrudge that ref for making that call.

The other is after the play, is completely objective (it either happens or it doesn't) and in no way effects the actual play of the game.

Objectionable conduct is for stuff like swearing excessively, taunting other players into violence, making crude gestures and spitting at other players. Not for voicing a desire to see a call made for a perceived wrong, briefly, quietly and perhaps slightly foolishly or for trying to signal your coach.

I look at it this way. Teams can already challenge pass interference, so there is zero need for a player to whine about it to the official after the play. All of the rules are in favour of the offense, there's a lot of automatic first down penalties, but no automatic 3rd down penalties. I'm fine with objectionable conduct when someone is whining for a flag.

" the entire country knows it " ( like the 2009 13th man call )

With all do respect LB74, please do not blame the refs for a bone head move by Tyler Reed.
You do not block from behind . The refs do not have time to figure out a dive.
Had TR, not put his hands on the guy , it would not have been called.
ST coaches sing it all the time. If you see a name , do not touch.

That was like running a red light when a cop is sitting behind you.

Besides, you are just assuming it would have been a TC victory.
Had the TD counted, there was still 36 seconds for the Stamps to either tie or win.

Sorry , but Tyler Reed has to live with this mistake. Just like Sean Lucas has to live with being the 13th man.
Not the refs.

Tyler Reed has admitted he shouldn't have done it and shouldn't have put himself in the position where the official might make that call. That's class, a lot more than someone else is currently showing.

hahaha. oh well.

The angle i'm coming from is that there was no push from Reed. He had a hand on the numbers, but didn't actually throw a block. The Calgary player dove, and as I said managed to dupe the official. When an official can get duped, they need to improve.

I don't see anywhere in the rule book a section stating "should team B fall down, team A will be assessed an illegal block and penalized accordingly."

and now, with new PI rules, the defender is being assessed a penalty when the receiver runs into the defender.

The issue is that the refs can't or won't discern the difference between being pushed, or taking a dive. And in the case of PI, being pushed, or intentionally colliding with a defender to draw a flag.

In the case of Illegal contact it appears from the Argo game the league is getting the message to officials. Calgary recieved an Illegal Contact penalty for one of their receivers pushing off on an Argo defender.

But the Toronto receiver did not get one for his blatant push to the Calgary DB's head, causing the defender to fall back away from the direction he was moving.

Never claimed the message was fully recieved, but unlike the first 2 weeks it is at least being called on the offense now. Hopefully the consistency will improve next week.

Me too. I just wish they had made the video review fair, allowing OPI to be challenged as well as DPI.