Has the MLS had any affect on MTL, TOR and the Leos?

New York City, enough said, tons of money there among the soccer people I'm quite sure. It'll be interesting if the MLS expands with more teams in Canada but at the price tag of a franchise which I'm sure is high now with as you're saying the league is doing well in the U.S. and looking at more U.S. markets, I doubt that will happen. And hopefully not albeit to a David Thomson price doesn't matter, and the CPL can expand and do well here with franchise fees reasonable.
350,000 viewers, not bad, difficult to know how to metric the MLS compared with the 4 true major leagues in N.A.

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The point you're missing is soccer has the one vital thing that Canadian football doesn't - the international game.

MLS (in Canada) and the CPL might be fairly small fry right now, but have you noticed Canada sitting at the top of Concacaf qualifying? Make it to the World Cup and things will start to change, have a deep run and interest may well explode.

Arguably the only reason things aren't bigger is the geographical fact that Canada is a Concacaf nation, so a "Champions League" playing the top clubs from the likes of El Salvador and Guatemala is never going to have the general interest of the European CL or the Libertadores.

The CFL is the one league that really should be worried, because NHL is untouchable, NFL and NBA are getting viewers and I doubt MLB would ever become a USA-only league, so it leaves the CFL as odd man out.

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I've been hearing that Song seriously since I lived in NY and Pele played for the Cosmos ! Seriously!


I can't speak for TOR or MTL but here in Vancouver, the biggest threat to the Lions are the Lions themselves. In 2014, the Leos averaged 28K a game. However, since 2013, they have only had one (1) better-than-:500 season. A lot of boring and/or inept home performances and lack of presence in the marketplace have been responsible for the erosion in attendance.

I currently view the Seahawks as a far greater threat to the Leos than the Whitecaps (who enjoy very loyal but niche support in this market). Looking forward to seeing Mr. Doman's vision implemented. He is the ideal owner that this club badly needed. Wealthy, local, charismatic, well-spoken and has ties to a sizeable ethnic community.


I am of the opinion though that while border or near border NFL teams like the Seahawks, Bills and Lions can be seen as taking away fans from CFL teams close by, I think the NFL helps keep gridiron football in the spotlight and the sport of gridiron very relevant as soccer continues to become more popular. Again I think this is where these CFL teams and maybe the CFL and NFL can do more joint partnership things with marketing etc. of gridiron and at least seem more like partners to make gridiron more popular which to me is the bigger issue than if the CFL is able to survive on it's own sort of deal. So have a "Seahawks day" at Lions game and have some players up and likewise Seattle could do a "Lions day" at a Seahawks game. It might sound weird but I don't think so. Anyways for example:


I agree. The CFL needs to form some kind of alliance with the NFL before they are beaten to the punch by one of the upstart leagues. This could be one way. At the very least they can reach an agreement on player movement and contracts between the leagues, as used to be the case.


It's not like the NFL is international as well.
Sure they have games in England every year but a long ways away from ever having a credible international tournament.

The CFL can do better in terms of promoting their brand but that does require getting out in the community.

I know this is not going to be popular - Sure I will catch hell for saying this - but the CFL needs to add three more teams - playing 3 down football and all three teams need to border the great lakes and be on American soil - No teams in Birmingham or Texas - Teams in Detroit, Rochester and some other sizeable location - get the CFL up to 12 teams and also help spread the 3 down game - don't tell me that 3 downs won't work in the USA - it worked so well that the NFL nuked Baltimore and moved a team there - Baltimore wasn't even on the expansion list when they added Jacksonville and Charlotte - the NFL saw a threat and went in with overwhelming force to extinguish the CFL in a major US market - Vegas and the others were dumpster fires - that said the CFL is going to be under pressure from the upstart leagues - the USFL is the one that worries me - It is owned by Fox - we have never seen a football league owned by a network - wholly owned - NBC owned part of the original XFL - but this thing is Fox's baby - and they have Fox Bets - I know that we all think spring football is doomed in the states - but this one I think is a different animal than all the others - Bottom line I think the the CFL needs expansion and the league shouldn't treat the 49th parallel like it is an impenetrable barrier -


There is definitely merit to what you say. A month or so ago there was discussion in a different thread about Fargo, started by someone who lived there and saw an opportunity. I advocated at the time that it was worth at least looking into and performing some due diligence. I also advocated expanding as you suggest into smaller northern US cities, and having their teams play a CFL game with the same field and rules. And if you think your post may be unpopular, I also supported ditching entirely the Canadian ratio rules. I think there are many good reasons for doing this but it would be imperative to do so if the CFL expanded into the US. I fail to see how this should at least not be looked at as obviously we have been going nowhere with Canadian expansion for decades. Although I would love to see a team in Halifax as well, but someone needs to step up there and I am tired of waiting.


Probably better to have the 9 franchises in their current cities as healthy as possible and then maybe looking to expand.

Halifax not wanting in the CFL that's on them.

Yes it is important to have the 9 franchises as healthy as possible, but arguably we are not far from that now. In my lifetime I don’t recall the CFL ever having 9 completely healthy trouble free franchises, so that will likely never realistically occur. And I am just advocating an open minded approach and that the CFL should look into new markets and perform due diligence. They may not find the right candidate. Or they may find a city that would be a stronger partner than an existing one and put pressure on that existing one to shape up. Some stated that Toronto should just be allowed to leave so looking into new opportunities would be especially important if you take that view. Sort of like not quitting your job before you have secured a new one.

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The NFL has survived without LA and LA's life went on without the NFL for 20 years.

The NFL went to LA for the tv market.

Am sure the CFL stays in Toronto for tv, media and corporate reasons.

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I think that having teams within driving distances to the core group of eastern teams would almost pay for itself - It would also enter some derby type atmosphere and dynamics with teams in the States - A reason to go to Rochester or over to Michigan - do some shopping hang out visit your cousin who married the American guy then go to the game - Add teams in the States that will not kill travel budgets for the new teams and existing teams - granted everyone is going to have to go west five times or so but I think three teams makes a better schedule for everyone - I talked to a guy a while back said he liked going to see Dunnigan playing for the Barracudas or Tracy Ham and Baltimore when they were in town - Same players different teams and colours - added a little something to the season - Kind of like MLS clubs playing friendlies against teams from Mexico mixes things up a little bit -


Bit of a catch-22.

Having more teams would add variety to the scheduling and increase interest in each market.


We shouldn't expand until the interest in each market (well, the three weakest ones anyhow) is stronger.

So far, Halifax is the only market with an ownership group that wants in. They want in. Next, we have to try to convince other markets to want in too.

They wanted a stadium fully paid by the city. If they offered to fund part of the stadium cost then maybe there might be some movement in that regard.

They did offer to pay for some of it. They wanted something like $30 million from the city, or various versions of that. Years prior, the city had already ear-marked something like $20 million for a stadium, and that's what the city then approved for the new Schooner's stadium. Less than SSE had asked for, but they were still going forward with the plan.

They also wanted money from the province (and feds, IIRC), which is the step they were at when Covid hit. But the cost of the seating to make the stadium go from ~12,000 to ~22,000 was what SSE had planned to pay for themselves.

Any updates in regards to Halifax or has that been shelved for the time being.

Not a question of not wanting it. What Canadian do you know who would not like NHL, CFL, NASCAR, UFC in their city???

Nova Scotia is utra-conservative and with the tiny population (many elderly) we have to live within our means. We dont' go running to the Federal government non stop for money like Quebec and Ontario.

I don't suspect this changing until the Wokes invading us from all over Canada (Ontario in particular) outnumber the natives. Then we'll be just another shiathole like Toronto and Montreal, where kids get shot in the face at the public library, waterfront property is seven figures and our elderly are priced out of their homes and pushed in homes for the elderly where they are abused like they are in Ontario and Quebec.

They call it "Progressive" LMAO

Nice empty Rink in Quebec City paid with subsidy camouflaged as "healthcare transfer".
Meanwhile pictures coming out of Quebec showing what they feed their elderly. This while the goverment is apologizing for the thousands of martyrs that were left to die during the pandemic in horrific conditions so bad that our Servicemen are receiving
counscelling a year later. Priorities HEY!

Last I heard--and I think that was early spring this year--they were still pursuing funding with the province. But they stated something like if they couldn't pin down funding by the end of the year that the project was probably dead.

And not a peep during Grey Cup week, so I'm guessing that means it's dead.

It will happen some day. Right now every city in Canada has much more pressing public finance emergencies to deal with.