Hamilton Stadium Debate

The The Ticats deserve a stadium when they can pay more then a $1.00 a year lease from the city of Hamilton (Best deal in the CFL)Kudos to Bob for saving the Ticats and building a solid franchise but hey put the money on the table like Ron Joyce and David Braley eg: MAC so stop bi*ch balling and pay the piper if you want to win in a brand new venue !!!! :roll: :wink:

True. In fact itā€™s gotten the thumbs up from the city.

[quot]The first thing is for the city to spend the money to find out whether the stadium will continue to be safe for the foreseeable future. If it is safe, this whole debate is a complete non-starter. I, for one, am happy with Ivor Wynne as it is.
[/quote]
Me too, and I Iove IWS, the whole gameday experience and the nostalgiac effect that the history gives. But, if it is deemed too expensive to maintain in the near future then all options should be considered. Sadly, all good things come to an end.

9 dates a year aren't enough for this to be a catalyst in the redevelopment of the downtown and waterfront.
[b]If[/b] a new stadium is the way to go,then I'm al for the downtown/waterfront location. That location would greatly enhance the entire stadium experience. Now, having said that, I agree with [b]55yardlineguy[/b] that 9 dates a year is hardly enough to drive this forward in order to make any financial sense. Money has to come from multipl sources. This should not, nor can it be, financed soley by the city. It would be a huge expense for so ltttle, if any, gain. What's needed is the creative aspect of the private sector to make this work. If someone can come up with a plan fo revenue generation then it's "all aboard" for financing.

Canā€™t see it tough. I need to be convinced.

If they build condos around the stadium so that one can see the field, I would pay top dollar for a unit. Even if the view is poor and I would never use it anyways because I would still goto the games, it would still be ā€œcoolā€ enough for me to want to live there. Especially if it was near the water or downtown.

If it is a stadium/arena, you add 40-50 home games for the Bulldogs or whomever. You do not loose the ombience of Ivor Wynne because the key is the movement of the stands and you leave the lid open until the weather is bad which also assists in getting a Grey Cup because the weather no longer is an issue. You know that the Argos are going to want the 100th Grey Cup. I say a new one of a kind state of the art stadium/arena would be a huge boom to Hamilton, the CFL and whatever hockey team(s) play in it. My view is that it must be private and there are a couple of billionaires and a private steel company that could afford it.

(RevClark) If it is a stadium/arena, you add 40-50 home games for the Bulldogs or whomever. You do not loose the ambience of Ivor Wynne because the key is the movement of the stands and you leave the lid open until the weather is bad which also assists in getting a Grey Cup because the weather no longer is an issue. You know that the Argos are going to want the 100th Grey Cup. I say a new one of a kind state of the art stadium/arena would be a huge boom to Hamilton, the CFL and whatever hockey team(s) play in it. My view is that it must be private and there are a couple of billionaires and a private steel company that could afford it.
I fully concur, Rev. The idea of a multi-use facility is appealing to me too. This would generate some extra dollars to pay for the complex. I would have no problem leaving the stadium on it's current location or building anew, but suffice it to say, its time to make a move of some kind.

In response to some posts in this thread where nothing has been heard regarding the need for a new or renovated stadium by the city or by city engineers, Fred Eisenberger, Bernie Morrelli and some city staff (engineers, etc) are on record as recognizing that IWS will cost up to $50 million to renovate. This indicates to me that they do indeed recognize that a possible problem exists. They have stepped up the frequency of inspections and repair costs and have reached a point where they MUST replace areas of this decaying relic annually.

I love the site lines at Ivor Wynne as much as the next person, but it appears that time is running out here.

I've thrown my hat into this debate on several occasions.

Here's what I see.

After seeing what Winnipeg is doing I think the Cat's should do the same, start building the first half of a new Ivor Wynne, complete it and start building the second half when the seasons completed. Keep the sight lines, increase the capacity. Have a permenant sports bar and make under the stands usable for trade shows, and other smaller events.

That is if they rebuild.

If they don't rebuild they should create a muli-use facility with one stipulation. Keep the intimate Ivor Wynn-esk sight lines for football games.

Seats should start 6 feet off the ground,players continue to have dug-outs for benchs and sidelines are a max 5 meters from the walls.

It is this intimacy that makes IWS the best place in Canada to watch a football game.

Location: A new stadium needs to be far enough away that concerts, monster truck and supercross races will not disturb the populous in the surrounding area. But close enough for fans to travel by bus to get to the game.

There should also be considerations for parking, ample room for tailgaters, or people who have travelled from a far with their motor homes and want to stay the night after the game. This would include space for 4 porta-let's at the corner of said parking lot.[b]

In and around the stadium could be various restaurants, sports memorabilia stores, and practice facilities for minor league teams.

The new IWS should be used at least 75 days/nights a year for games, big ticket renters like concerts, and moto cross or monster truck shows. The rest of the time it can be a game venue for minor league sports and community groups. It could make money.

Yes there are gaps in my plan but it would be a cool thing for Hamilton.

Oh and one more thing, bury the stadium as deep as you can. This is way out in left field but if they had a stadium where the top rows where at ground level it would be amazing to walk into. This open up even more financial development around the stadium and not disrupt the sky line.

That's my two cents.

I really like the "one of kind" thing but hey it's not my 150-200 million. Any company or person that can make a blackberry has potential to make a stadium/arena and Bob has some expertise not to mention capital as well.

You cannot leave out the "legacy" idea either. This is part of why we all love Ivor Wynne, it's the legacy of all the games that have been there.

Bob and Jim could build a one of a kind stadium/arena to appeal to both of their passions and leave a 30 year legacy. Yes, I realize that Jim does not have a team but that may be a matter of time.

The Bulldogs and Ticats alone could be profitable if the owners of the teams are the owners of the arena/stadium as well.

Oh and one more thing, bury the stadium as deep as you can. This is way out in left field but if they had a stadium where the top rows where at ground level it would be amazing to walk into. This open up even more financial development around the stadium and not disrupt the sky line.
Interesting idea. Although when it snows...removal would be tough. And could only imagine if it rained...oh and seeing how proposed site is near the water front might have some trouble water proofing at that depth.
  1. Close to the Linc for access

  2. Totally underground.

  3. On the ground above (over) it, parking lot.
    Similar to Toronto and Montreal subways.

    Same temperature all year around.
    Easy drainage and snow removal.
    Etc.
    I know there are architectural and engineering issues, but I will leave that to the architects and engineers.

haha wow, I canā€™t believe people are suggesting the stadium be built ā€œinto the groundā€. Itā€™s a nice cool fantasy, but I can see a multitude of problems with it. The number one problem is $$$. :wink:

If its not broke donā€™t fix it ? But it is broke and fixing it will put us back in the same boat down the road. Its like a carā€¦it keeps chugging along and eventually it comes to the end of its life instead of letting it go you have to keep throwing money into it to keep it running when the smarter way of going about it is trading it in on something new.

A new stadium opens up a lot of revenue in this town. Build it in a non-residental areaā€¦so the stadium can house concerts and other venues. Make it a centerā€¦build restaurants, bars, hell why not relocate the CFL hall of fame closer to itā€¦

That ā€œSight lineā€ arguement is played outā€¦there are extremely skilled engineers out there who can duplicate the sight lines or even make them better so that arguement is just bad.

This city made two mistakesā€¦the location of Ivor Wynne and the location of Coppsā€¦both are in a busy downtown core that is only busy because of the amount of cars passing though. There is nothing really worthwhile near either stadiumā€¦used to be but not anymore.

I say build a new stadium buy up lots of landā€¦increase the number of seats, it will allow us to get stuff like commonwealth gamesā€¦and actually get us to host the Grey Cup.

Everything diesā€¦People, Animals, and Stadiums its time to put Ivor Wynne down to rest it served this city well over 75 yearsā€¦prolonging its life is just foolish.

Let me get this rightā€¦ in a non-residential neighborhood but build lots around it? We already have a site like this, itā€™s called downtown. Neither location was or is a mistake. There are no real arguments against either.

Jare Canada:
I love your idea, which in effect, constitutes the building of a new stadium and will certainly cost a bundle.

The idea of digging the site out to place the top row of seating at ground level is appealing, but I'm doubtful that the city will be willing to go this far. If not, maybe they could put half of it under ground.

Anyway, Jare, this talk is likely premature, but hopefully will give the city and interested parties some food for thought.

I've gone on record in the past for favouring a site on the mountain, close to the airport, but right now, I'd settle for the $40,000 to $50,000 million renovation.

Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton is built ā€œinto the groundā€. Not completely, of course.
Street level is approximately 3/4 of the way up the lower seating section.

I hate to even get into this "if they build it" talk...because I love Ivor Wynne just the way it is...just needs some updates from time to time.
However, I will throw my ideas in the hat anyway.
A) Needs to be above ground. This is to allow ALL fans, especially the ones paying more to sit down low, to see the outside view (whatever that may be)
B) Needs a 'retro' concept that incorporates the old Ivor Wynne as well as a view of something other than the plumes of smoke
C) Needs to be able to house concerts and everything else like that.

I'm still not sure bands coming to Hamilton in the summer will want to play in a venue that is over 35k. Copps is perfect for that already and weather isn't a factor...not many bands that put Hamilton on the tour list could sell nearly 50,000 tickets either. But hey...maybe if a modern stadium is built...those bands will come to Hamilton and roll the dice with the weather.
I personally still hope it doesn't happen...and if it does...they better do it right. No cold boring stadium in a stoopid location.

I think you guys have been living in Hamilton too long you expect the City or the Province or the Feds to move in and build you a stadium. It will never happen.
Look at the idea in Ottwawa - a few private investors want to take over Landsdowne Park re-devlop it with theatres, condos, a pond and rebuild the stadium with restaurants, private boxes etc - all for $250 Million. NO taxpayers money!!
The private investors want to see a profit and will be determined to see the thing built.

Get over this idea that the City should step in and re-build the stadium, there is no payback it will cost a lot of money. The stands are crumbling it has to be re-built they canā€™t wait until itā€™s comdemned like in Ottawa.
Let private developers build a complex downtown, combine it with theatres, condos, casino and the ability to put on a roof in the winter for soccer and other sports.

You expect a dome? Pffft.
Who says private investors wonā€™t be used in Hamilton? They could partner with the City, Team and maybe the province.
It could be done, after allā€¦these CFL stadiums were built beforeā€¦so it is do-able. These stadiums havenā€™t just always been there.
Iā€™d prefer to keep what weā€™ve got though, do whatever needs to be done to keep the structure safeā€¦and thatā€™d be good enough for me.

expect a dome??

Pfft - Have you ever been to Ottawa? there is a dome over Frank Clair stadium every November until April. The field is used all winter by soccer teams and other events. Iā€™m sure private investors would want to do the same thing in Hamilton.
The dome costs the city of Ottawa zero - the field is rented to a company that puts the dome up every winter and they rent it out.

If IWS can be salvaged and spruced up, I'm all for that.
If a new venue is to be built, using Mayor Fred's new vision of a pedestrian mall downtown could play a part.
A stadium, Copps Coloseum and a new walking friendly downtown....just think!

Put the money toward renovating IWS. 30-40 million would to the trick. Why do we need a new stadium with a track around the field like Edmontonā€™s Commonwealth Stadium, where the stands start 20-25 yards from the field? Is it just so we can put in a bid to host the Commonwealth games in 2014 or is it 2018? Halifax already realized itā€™s too costly. I donā€™t thing we need to go into debt to host a one time event, and lose the sight-lines we already have in one of the best stadiums to watch football.