For the record.
The Hamilton Tiger-Cats own the distinction of being the only CFL team to play and win against a NFL [AFC] team.
On Aug. 8/1961 Hamilton handed the Buffalo Bills a 38-21 defeat.
This should be something to think about, the next time your buzzy on down the QEW to a Bills game.
So come out Nov.15/09 and support your Hamilton Tiger-Cats everyone, they are one of the best Football bargins around!!!!!!!
For the record.
Doc: When was this game played? What are the circumstances?
Could you elaborate a bit?
Its too bad the NFL and CFL preseasons aren't at the same time. It would be fun to have a couple home and home preseason series every year. By the time NFL teams start their preseason, we're already in week 5 or 6 of the regular season.
Maybe in 2011 they could have a 50 year rematch?
The problem is 3 downs vs 4 downs and 12 players vs 11 players. Neither league wants to gear up to play a meaningless exhibition game with a different set of rules. NFL training camp is taken very seriously and they take the full 6 weeks to put in their plays and personel that they need for the regular season. Taking 1 week out to play potentially a 1/2 of football that they are unfamiliar with and won't play during the regular season is not going to go over very well with the NFL.
The NFL has just grown to epic proportions since the CFL/NFL games were played.
It would be interesting to see but I don't think it will happen.
Who Cares what happened 50 years ago. No relevance to today. Buffalo had just joined a new league called the AFL no connection to the NFL, the AFL paid salaries lower than the NFL and the CFL. They played a CFL team that was experienced had play together and new the rules.
Just a reminder that the biggest crowd for a football game at the Rogers Centre this year will be when the Bill play the Jets.
Even though these fans will probably pay 5 times as much to attend this game. Most fans will come from the Toronto area, fans from the Buffalo area will not pay those prices.
This was the very first football game I ever went to. My dad took me - I was already a lifetime Ti-Cat fan at this point as a 10 year old. I can't remember too may particulars about the game except that the game as played half with CFL rules and half with American Football rules.
Have to remember, as others have stated, the Bills were a new team, just two years old and finished last in their division in the AFL and the coach was fired at season's end. The Cats finished first in their division, losing to the Bombers in the Cup. The site provided by ottawcat gives some of the players names so well known at the time. On the Buffalo side, one name stands out, Elbert Dubenion, probably one of the best players in the AFL at the time and for years afterwards. It was soon after this the CFL started losing American players to the upstart league, McDougall and "Cookie" Gilcrest being two of the more notables. Also it was Civic Stadium of course not IW as stated in the article.
I understand that after the game, Ralph Wilson, the Bills' owner, challenged the Ticats to a rematch the next year, but Jake Gaudaur wisely declined.
Ralph Wilson and Ted Rodgers are two of the greediest people on either side of the boarder. As far as rodgers centre holding another NFL game, good luck to them. I here they are giving away tickets to try and get a respectable crowd. The only reason people pay $100.00 a ticket to see a Bills game is because they are brain washed it is a better product. American hype, save it for your wars.
The only reason Ralph is here is because he is going to try and sell the team in the near future.
I here he is looking for a cool $6,000,000,000.00, thats six billion to us average joes.
As far as a rematch, bring it! The only team that would have trouble getting a first down with 4 downs would be the Argos.
The Bills game at the RC will be the biggest crowd of freebies this year.
The AFL at start up were paying salaries comparable to the NFL. There was a bidding war going on, and the CFL lost some good players to the new league because of higher salaries. That's why the two leagues merged.
But about the Ticat/Bills game back then. The ratio in the CFL was 14 imports and 18 Canadians. However Hamilton had a large contingent of imports who had become "Canadians" (DT Angelo Mosca, DT John Barrow, QB Bernie Faloney, OT Ellison Kelly, OG Hardiman Cureton and DB Ralph Goldston) They also had some players who were born (or their parents were born in Canada) so they were classed as Canadians as well. OT Bronco Nagurski, OG Bill Danychuk, DE Rob Ray, DB Billy Waite and DB Teddy Page.
So Hamilton was an experienced good football club and they took the foot off the gas pedal in the second half or the score would not have been close.
DoubleBlue, nice post. The rule that American players with long term playing time, could play with Canadian (non-import) status way back then really lead to some really great CFL teams, probably the only ones that just might have beat an NFL squad in an exhibition game. We all know that it never did happen and probably never will.
However you did remind just how old I have become, I saw all of those great players you mentioned play.
How would you feel about a return of the 'naturalized' Canadian to the CFL?
Thankyou, OT. I neglected to read in the original post that the game took place in 1961. Thanks to your link,
I now remember the rest of the story as I was at this game. I was confusing it with one my dad took me to in Buffalo (Memorial Stadium)in the 50s. The teams were Hamilton and Toronto. The Argo"nots" won this game in which Al Bruno, from the dreaded blue team made one of the most spectacular catches I've ever seen on a long ball from, (I think) Knobby Wyrkowski.
I read about this a few years ago, and have bragged to a few American football fans, most of which have never heard of this game.Then most fans of the never no fun league do not consider the CFL real football.So when one of these uninformed individuals start to trash the best football league in the world I sometime pull this out of the blue and just say Ti-Cats beat the Bills, then they look at me sort of funny and I smile and walk away.
So why would you be proud of a game played 50 years ago??? who gives a damn about a pre-season game 50 years ago!!!
I just don't get it. It makes me laugh that Canadians have to go through the archives and find a pre-season game played 50 years ago where we actually beat Americans and then brag about it..............lol............ to me that's pretty insecure stuff.
I can never understand why people that love the CFL seem to think that the way to support the league is to put down the NFL and trash it and say stupid things like no fun league ect. I love the CFL but that doesn't mean I have to come up with childish trash talk.
Jaybird, if Buffalo beat the Cats you can be sure it would be common knowledge especially in the states. Instead it is Ralph Wilson's best kept secret.
Besides we are not talking just about what happened 50 yrs. ago.
We are talking about supporting a team that has turned their fortunes around and the fine people of Hamilton need to show their support by coming out this Sunday and selling out the house!!
Could Hamilton beat the Bills now? Lets just say this, Hamilton wasn't favoured to win in 61 and look what happened.
Its time to get excited about the great turn around the Cat's have made.
Go Cats Go!!!!!!
I have always been in favour of that but not unlimited. We would then get too many ordinary imports taking real Canadian jobs. But about three per team would allow the star imports who can play 8 -10 years in the league at a high level play their last years as non-imports.
Players like Geroy Simon, Jason Tucker, Milt Stegall, Jermaine Copeland, Eddie Davis, Dan Goodspeed, Otis Floyd, Jonathan Brown, Jordan Younger, Anwar Stewart and players of that ilk. These guys and more have proved their talent level and committment to the league.
Of course we could also have some instant Canadian QB's like Cavillo, Joseph, Burris, Ray, Maas, Glenn, Pierce and Bishop.
We lose about what would be an average of two Canadians per team to the NFL and there is a number of back door Canadians in the league like Reall and Teyo Johnson, Wayne Smith and Noel Prefontaine who are really imports and the league should close that phony loop hole. So to me 3 naturlized non-imports per team would be about right.
We would have the top imports in the league playing their last 4 -5 years as a non-import making up for the league not having the NFL Canadians and in most cases some average players that get classed as non-imports because they lived 7 years in Canada before their 15th birthday. It would be fairer to all teams and parity is suppose to be the goal, I think.
".... so they were classed as Canadians as well. OT Bronco Nagurski, OG Bill Danychuk, DE Rob Ray, DB Billy Waite and DB Teddy Page. So Hamilton was an experienced good football club and they took the foot off the gas pedal in the second half or the score would not have been close "
sorry double blue,,, dont mean to take the wind out of your sails in an otherwise enjoyable post... but danychuk didnt join the tabbies until 1964 and waite and paige were part of the eskie trade in 1966.. in that trade we also got bill riddell a great quarterback and DB and ed turek, a central high school product... in return we gave the eskies frank cosentino a home brew qb from cathedral who went on to become a distinguished university professor, coach and author... and some other players..
oh pleeese get over it. ........... How would you feel if Americans kept going on about the US beating Canada in hockey. Yes they have beaten us several times and knocked us out of the Olympics a couple of times, have I ever heard an American rub it in because they beat us a couple of time? No because they don't care and most have manners.
Yet hockey is our game and the US with very few players and not a hockey culture kicked our asses.
But we want to remember a Pre-season football game that meant absolutely nothing 50 years ago, with mostly American players on our side ???
"Ralph Wison's best kept secret??" come on guys YOU ARE CANADIANS you are above this childish "look at me I'm Canadian, aren't I great" attitude.
Get over it!! its not an accomplishment!