Halifax Hornets

Moncton Maulers anyone?

Halifax has a MUCH greater population density, and Moncton's stadium will be too small to start ... ask Montreal how easy it is to expand a stadium ...

Again, asking people to drive to a different city, for every CFL game, is expecting too much.

Not really, the distance between Moncton and Halifax is not that great and it is Closer to PEI + the rest of Canada(Quebec) Big New Brunswick Cities(fredrickton, St.John)

Moncton could be a better area simply because it is only 2.5H away from Halifax(300K people).
2H from Fredricton(100K)
1.5H from St.John(100K)
2.5H from PEI(130K)

The goal of this team is not to draw from one city but to draw from all of the Maritimes, all 3 Provinces from that 2.5M People.
Moncton is the most central large City.

People Drive alot further then 2 hours to see the Rider Priders.(I have heard of up to 6 hours for regular Rider fans for every home game)

Regina isn’t big, but the reason Sask survives is they Draw from around them(like Saskatoon)
It only works for football and the buildup surrounding a game.

Now with Halifax you can get fans coming in but it will rely on the Harbour to bring fans in(from say St.John)
Moncton will rely on Land to bring in the fans.
The team will need a 25K seat Stadium to start and move to 30K.

For those who said it, the expansion of a Stadium can be very hard, but can be very easy.
The Issue with Montreal is Public opposition, in Moncton you would need the local Communities support before hand and rights to the land before a team is to move to that Stadium.(so no one can build up where you want to expand).

*side note about Moncton, The Moncton Coliseum Complex is Atlantic Canada’s top entertainment and trade show facility, with a drawing power of 1.4 million people within a three hour drive.
That means 1.4M people within a 3H drive. That’s alot better then Winnipeg, Winnipeg might have 1M people within a 3H drive. MIGHT, but definitly not 1.4M

What is also perfect is this seems to be a 10 or 11K seat Stadium, making it easy to hold a touchdown atlantic in Moncton Yearly until the East Coast gets A CFL team, no need for Temp Seating because 10K is enough to make money in a pre-season game(tickets do cost more of course)

If they do start building this Stadium it would make sense for the Prov/City to match the Feds money so a 39M stadium could be built, that should get atleast 20K Seats, with a montreal plan that would work.(so really expensive fronts seats), Luxury Boxes would be a must.

With the Atlantic billionaire willing to pitch in to get the CFL started in Moncton, it would be all go.

Moncton Mariners
or
Moncton Maroons

Thanks Barns, that was my entire point.
I feel that Moncton is simply ahead of Halifax big time. Yes both cities are great.
Right now Halifax only sounds better because they have been the talk in the CFL since 84 but realistically, Moncton is way ahead of Halifax even if their stadium is a little on the small side.

Lets compare.
Halifax
St Marys Stadium seats 3 thousands and is expandable up to 11 thousand maximum.
No Games

Moncton
New stadium for the games.
10 thousand seat and tons of room for expansion.
CFL regulation feild.
Yes 10000 seats may be on the small side but it is 10 000 seats in a new stadium that Halifax does not have for a set of games that Halifax does not have.

It is alot easier to expand a brand new 10 000 seat stadium that it would be to build a new stadium from scratch in Halifax.

Here is a old article from 1999 in regards to the Maritimes pushing for a CFL francise.

http://www.carleton.ca/Capital_News/22011999/f5.htm

BB, I think they would have to get the Stadium expanded to 25,000 seats before they would agree to a team there.

Its a good start! I like your thinking....A bigger stadium...easier to renovate!

Yes, it's probably easier to expand a stadium than to build one from scratch. But I can guarantee you that there will be community opposition in Moncton to try and stop expanding that stadium, too.

But these driving times are too big. 2.5 hrs from Halifax? I can drive to Edmonton in 2.5 hrs!! If it's that far from the biggest city in the area ... why not just put the team in the biggest city in the area?

The Saskatchewan example is the exception, NOT the norm. How many people drive from interior BC to go to Lions games? How many people drive from Churchill to go to Bombers games? How many people drive from Medicine Hat and Lethbridge to go to Stamps games? Or from Fort Mac, Lloydminster, or Grande Prairie for Esks games? Not many. Certainly not enough to support a football team!

Saskatchewan fans are loyal to a team that's been around for over half a century. While it's true that a CFL team in Moncton would be the only pro team around, you'd be asking people 2.5 hrs away to all of a sudden be so loyal to a brand-new team, that they'll drive 5 hrs to get to and from games. As it says in that article Beer posted, "There's nothing for people to be nostalgic about".

Of course there will be people who may do that. But they'd probably only do it once per season. You may get a couple of hardcore fans who would buy season tickets, and drive 2.5 hrs each way for EVERY game. But there would likely be less than 20 of those.

Likewise, you can't put seats at an exorbitantly high price until the demand shows itself to be there. For example, it's only because Montreal's been selling out McGill for the last 7 years that they can have prices that high. Moncton hasn't sold out any games yet - so you can't start price-gouging the fans (some of who may have already paid $50 in gas just to get to the game?)

Moncton's drawing power of 1.4M in a 3-hr radius is only good for huge, one-off, special events - like Rolling Stones concerts, for example. The Grey Cup would bring those people in, but not every regular season home game.

Here are the numbers from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_th ... _in_Canada:
Quebec City - 715.5k people
Winnipeg - 695k people
Hamilton - 693k people
London - 458k people
Halifax - 373k people
Saskatoon - 234k
Regina - 195k
Moncton - 126k
St John - 122k
Cape Breton - 106k
Fredericton - 86k
New Glasgow, NS - 36k

The populations of Moncton, Fredericton and St John - the two closest cities to Moncton - add up to 334k. If you throw in New Glasgow, which is probably about as close to Moncton as St John, the population is still only 370k - Halifax alone is 373k!!!

What about this - the second-biggest city in Atlantic Canada, Moncton, is "only" 2.5 hrs from the biggest city in Atlantic Canada.

I think it's plain to see that you'd get more season-ticket holders if the team was based in Halifax, than if it was based in Moncton.

Not to mention, Moncton doesn't even have a University football team!!! Halifax does, and it's well-supported, for University football.

If I lived in Halifax, I would be BAFFLED to try and explain why such a small city, with less of a football tradition, got a team instead of Halifax.

I think the team oughta go to Halifax. Except for the stadium issue, it's probably best suited to support the team right now. Just as long as you don't call it "Atlantic", Moncton can always get a team in the future. There's a rivalry for ya.

By the way, here's an online petition to get a stadium in Halifax:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/hstadium/petition.html

And the facebook group for "Build a Stadium in Halifax"

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2248041900

Halifax roughriders?

The idea of Quebec City or Moncton being ahead of Halifax in the pursuit of a CFL expansion team reminds me of the NHL circa 1990. The NHL was starting to expand again. The first expansion was thought to be adding 2 U.S. teams and 1 Canadian team to keep the ratio of U.S.-Canadian teams the same (14-7). Ottawa and Hamilton were the two Canadian cities up for the expansion team. Hamilton was considered the favourite because it had Copps Coliseum, which while not up to NHL standards, was alot closer than the Ottawa Civic Centre. Since a new arena would be needed anyway, and partly because of territorial issues with Toronto and Buffalo, Ottawa won. The Alouettes consider the whole province of Quebec to be their territory, and Quebec City would probably need a new stadium anyways. At the very least they would need a major upgrade to Peps Stadium which would cost well on the way to the cost of a new stadium. The same applies to Moncton. The most expensive part of stadium construction occurs as the stadium goes higher because that is when you need more support underneath. It isn't that easy to expand a stadium.

Like I have been asking previously, has anyone heard from the once hot to trot mayor of Moncton.
In fact, was he re elected?
Regardless, the silence is defening in Halifax, QC and Moncton.

Signed and joined!

Ditto!!

Lets get it done in Halifax ASAP.

signed

To whomever started this petition, THANK YOU! Now we need to make the public aware. We need to get this into newspapers in the maritimes(after the NHL playoffs are over). A mention on the TSN season opener would be a huge boost as well.

Hey!!.. the Halifax Argonauts sounds AWESOME!!

Your examples are a lil far off no?

Churchill to Winnipeg is a full tank of gas Drive. However say Portage la Prairie to Winnipeg PEOPLE DO DO THAT!

I sit with people who drive over an hour to go to Bomber games.

Halifax amount of people in a 2.5H Radius - 600K?
Moncton same Radius - 1.4M

You can’t say Riders are the only team in their situation as the Packers are the same.

Why would someone from a big city drive to a small city if you have the same things?

If Halifax doesn’t get up and build a stadium and Moncton does, then Halifax folks will have no choice but to drive to moncton to watch CFL football. Currently they ARE traveling further then that.

The Riders are more an anomaly because their in Regina and not Saskamatoon. Sask would work better, their more central to Saskatchewan and are currently larger(likely wasn’t the case back then)

CFL standards are basicly: Have an owner to front expansion costs + have a stadium of atleast like 20K(and a business plan) that’s about it.

Now Moncton or Halifax would need a 25-30K stadium because the montreal business plan would work too well there(really high priced top end seats) as they need a larger upper class IMO.

Interesting find:
" The city also has ambitions to land a CFL (Canadian Football League) franchise. Moncton however is in competition with Halifax and Quebec City for the CFL franchise."
From: ’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moncton,_N … recreation

as for not having a CIS team, well that is true there should be more then 1 CIS team in New Brunswick. HOWEVER, the only CIS team in New Brunswick is in Sackville a city of 5-6K people 45KM from Moncton. I wonder maybe they get support from moncton?
that’s a 30 minute drive, it takes longer to go around/through major cities then 30 minutes.

like north end of Winnipeg to the U of M for a Bison game, that’s 40 minutes unless it’s the middle of the night.

CIS football seems to be fairly random in terms of which cities/universities have teams.
Looking around one would think there would be a team in newfoundland, more in Alberta, More then 3 cities in Quebec to have a CIS team(trois riviere perhaps?), a team in Western Ontario(like Sudbury)… but Waterloo has two teams, no team in Victoria?

But considering Atlantic Canada has only a pop of say… 1.4M-2M? and they have 4 teams.
That is alot better concentration then western canada is it not?

The biggest thing is always who steps up and throws their support in, if Moncton does and it looks their ahead of Halifax and Quebec because their the only ones moving forward they they are have the best chance to get a team.

Moncton as alot more pop then Regina if you factor in close Cities, Halifax is closer to Moncton then Sask is to Regina.

Halifax is a tad far for St.Johns or fredricton to travel to(an extra hour is it?) so 3.5 hours instead of a nice little 1 Hour Drive.
Also add an hour to all travellers from the Rock(PEI)
it is in closer range to cape Breton(halifax)
BC has 2(CIS teams) BC has alot more then 2M in pop.

You can't say Riders are the only team in their situation as the Packers are the same.

But considering Atlantic Canada has only a pop of say... 1.4M-2M? and they have 4 teams.
That is alot better concentration then western canada is it not?

The Packers situation is not the same. The population of Wisconsin (2005 est.) is 5.536 million. Milwaukee, 110 miles south of Green Bay has about 1.5 million. There are about 250 thousand people in the Appleton-Oshkosk-Fond-du-Lac metro area about 50 miles from Green Bay.
The thing to note about 3 of the 4 CIS teams is that they are all relatively close to Halifax.
I agree with CanucKev, it it too much too expect people to regularly drive long distances to go to games. How many people could go to early season mid-week games when they would have to go to work/school the next day? You need a core of fans and businesses for support, and Moncton doesn't have enough of either. Putting a CFL team in Moncton is only slightly more ludicrous than putting an NHL team in Halifax.

oh come on, like the green bay situation isn't the same.

Green bay Metro area: 300K

Milwakee(180KM+ away): 1.7M
Madison(220KM+ away): 600K

Those aren't what I would think of as close locations to draw a large % of that 5.4M people.

Question, how do Baseball games work in the states when their in the middle of the day?

Now it is a culture change. But one thing must be looked at and that's alot(not all) but alot of New bruswick/Nova scotia/PEI is fishing related?
Most the cities are coastal, so having a 6 PM game shouldn't really effect people if their fisherman. no more then any other time, if anything it's better(waking up at 6 AM to go fishin)

Now again not all are, but alot.

How long does it take to drive into TO for a hockey/football game from any of the suburbs?
Isn't there a decent bit of traffic on the way to the games? Look where skydome is located right lake ontario is it, it's a bad example in that TO is a huge city. but it is a good example because it's a big city, you need to fight traffic, a 50KM drive can turn into 1-2 Hours depending on how traffic flow is.
Why do people drive 100 miles from TO to Buffalo to see NHL games?

People can be expected to drive all sorts of distances, Now building in the bigger city is nice, but Halifax are being Hippies.

so why not go for the people willing to build?
There is nothing to compete with a CFL team out east. I mean there are Atlantic fans who come in large numbers to the Grey cup yearly. They have their own Grey cup party(atlantic Schooners)
It's not 20K, but considering they don't have a team their support is very good. Their numbers at grey cup 2006 were in the top 3 or 4 in terms of team numbers.

Winnipeg and Sask were 1/2 after that Edmonton after that it was Atlantic Canada. If they'll fly half way across the country, a 2 hour drive isn't that hard to expect.

If Green Bay average 70K fans, from a 300K metro area With no more then say.. 700K in a hour drive Radius, is it really hard to think Moncton couldn't Draw a 25K fan average from a 130K metro area + 250K in a 1H drive Radius

The Ratio are actually the exact same or Favor Moncton.

Halifax Becomes Monctons Milwaukee.
It's around the same distance.

And Who would be foolish enough to give Moncton thursday games? I mean really.
They would be the weekend game saturday/sunday.

Riders, Toronto and Moncton should be strictly weekend games.
Give the Bombers, Thursday/Friday games.
Then a west coast team the double header game on friday.

Double header saturdays.
Toronto, Moncton get 10 total + 10 total sunday games. done.

If Monctons in the CFL is at 10 teams(with Ottawa)
so 2 friday games + 3 sat/sun games.
Business support see Regina/Green Bay.
McCain?
Irving family companies?

Those are two big Companies that can provide corporate support regardless of where the team is located in Atlantic Canada(two big names Sask doesn't have)

'The Moncton Census Metropolitan Area is the fastest growing urban region east of Toronto and is one of the top ten fastest growing metropolitan areas in Canada, tied with Vancouver at 6.5% in the period between 2001-2006.'(From Wiki)

Also:
'Several arms of the Irving corporate empire have their head offices in Greater Moncton. These include Midland Transport, Majesta/Royale Tissues, Irving Personal Care, Master Packaging and Cavendish Farms.'
and also:
'.4 million people live within a three hour drive of Moncton. This is the largest catchment area in Atlantic Canada (there are only 750,000 people within three hours of Halifax). Despite the longstanding rivalry between Moncton and Halifax, the two cities have recently joined together to promote the concept of a Moncton-Halifax growth corridor, building on the strengths of the two cities as well as the intervening communities including Truro, Amherst and Sackville.'

So it would seem, it's strong Business community, a growing Community AND, is teaming with Halifax to build alot of pop between them, which should mean better highways = easier travel between the two cities. more frequent buses traveling between the two aswell.

But key part is the Corporate headquarters PERFECT for a Football city, Luxury boxes would be filled up providing much needed income for the team.

NHL team in Halifax. haha, I didn't even know they had serious NHL ambitions. That is a funny one for sure.

There are two real NHL prospective Canadian cities one is in Southern Ontario(waterloo we'll say) the other is Winnipeg.