Halifax: Build it and they will come...or not?

http://tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=358675

Will shovels ever hit the ground? If so, will the Atlantic Schooners Mach Two ever happen?

We shall see...

Oski Wee Wee,

Russ

I see even Mayor Bob is Quoted

For Hamilton Mayor Bob Bratina, there's no question about what Halifax should do.

"Any city worth a name has had a stadium since time immemorial," he said. "If you do it right, it's a place that will get used a lot."

Hamilton's Ivor Wynne Stadium is about to undergo a $150-million facelift, $55 million of which will fall on city taxpayers.

The balance will be covered by the Ontario and federal governments as Hamilton gets ready to host the 2015 Pan American Games.

For Bratina, a new stadium is clearly worthwhile, not only because it guarantees the CFL Ticats stay put, but for the sense of community it creates.

"There's about 240 days a year that something is happening in that stadium," said Bratina. "It's a busy place and lots of Hamiltonians go through it every year."

Bratina said if Halifax has ambitions for a stadium, pursuing a CFL franchise couldn't hurt.

CFL Expansion is coming IMHO.
Ottawa is already commited and accepted, QC,Moncton,and now Halifax will all want a franchise.
Maybe all of them will get in, a 12 team league.
Would a 12 team league put us in the west?

Both Halifax and Moncton won't get franchises. It will be one or the other. Halifax has a higher population then Moncton, but both city's metros are still only in the 125,000 area. I'd be more inclined towards Moncton because they can draw better from PEI and the rest of the Maritimes a bit better then Halifax could, which is really what these locations will need to do. QC is of course always possible, but I don't see it happening until there is an owner and the city gets on board with the idea. I'd really hate to see us get sent to the west, but unless Saskatoon or Victoria are capable of supporting franchises (which I sadly doubt) it might happen. However, lets get to getting 9-10 stable teams first.

BC, Calgary, Edmonton, Sask, Winnipeg
Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, QC/Martimes

I was there last year and the big difference and why Moncton will get a CFL franchise, the people want it and there is political will.
In addition, the mayor announced there were several private rich potential owners wanting to get in.
Go Moncton.

I believe that I've corrected these idea from several other posters as well.

Halifax metro area 2011 estimate = 405,000 in Metro area /Halifax county (http://www.halifaxchamber.com/content/P ... ary_4_2011) + add 1 hr. driving distance = 500,000.

Moncton's metro area is 138,000 in 2011 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns ... s-can.html) with an hour drive bringing that up to about 250,00. If you get to 2 + hr. drives then things begin to equalize but for the average fan base in Canada I would lay my money on the pop. of Halifax.

(I've lived in N.S. and my wife is a Moncton girl and I've spent a lot of time there.) I'd LOVE to see succesful franchises in both. Hey- if Moncton can do it maybe St. John's, NFLD with a 1 hr. drive pop. of 260,000? (Yeah Mark, dream on).

Well, since it's the depths of the off-season and we're dreaming big, I say a twelve team league would not push the TiCats into the West Division. I envision (or fantasize) the current five Western teams and a six team East: Hamilton, blue team, Ottawa, Montreal, Maritimes and Quebec City. If London were to get a team that would just make seven Eastern teams. Unless gold, oil, or diamonds are discovered in Thunder Bay I don't see a sixth Western team in my lifetime.

A 6th team in the Western Division does not need to be in Western Canada. If some day London drummed up enough interest and money to land a CFL franchise, there's no reason why we couldn't place them in the Western Division, just like the Bombers are currently in the Eastern Division, despite being in Western Canada or Detroit is in the Western Conference of the NHL despite being closer to a lot of Eastern Conference teams.

I know it sort of screws with the traditional East vs. West dynamic in [Canada that's projected onto] the CFL, but when Western Canada only has about 1/4 of the Canadian population, we shouldn't expect that they'd be able to hold half the teams in an expanded league. They're defying the odds as it is, but I don't think we can push that any further.

Everyone can talk about new stadiums on the East coast and the population base etc but the most important factor is the "owner" It's difficult enough to find owners that want to lose money in the biggest markets in Canada (Toronto and Hamilton)
If potential owners/investors think it's very risky to invest in southern Ontario which has the huge potential for advertising revenue and business people, wealthy individuals that want the private boxes/suites etc.
It's more than "bums in seats" these days. If you look at any stadium in the NFL you will see that they make more in revenue from "private boxes/suites" in a season than any CFL team makes from ticket revenues.
Halifax or Moncton maybe a good choice for the odd exhibition game but there is Zero chance of a CFL team. I don't think any investor would touch a CFL franchise on the East Coast.

Of course though mike the NFL isn't coming to Canada at least for the time being and certainly not in 8 cities or so like the CFL. So if we want football in Canada at a pro level to survive then there has to be more TV money to make this happen, somehow the CFL needs to get into a bidding war between TSN and Sportsnet or CBC. But will that happen? If not, then if I'm TSN I continue to low ball and that's the problem, and some would say why the CFL model can't work.

There has to be a way for everyone to make money EASY like the Cardinals in Arizona did when they were getting 30,000 a game. It's only with TV if that is still possible in the current economy and internet age. :wink:

Too be honest, and I love the CFL so much, I still have a difficult time understanding how the league has survived this long in what it is ie. not American based, and especially how so many young people have been hooked on "if it ain't American based, it has to be crap" sort of thing. I don't get it, but I love it. But we have to get a team out east or else.

The beauty for me is that the Grey Cup is the thing, not the CFL per se. The CFL could go under but the Cup lives on as long as there is some Canadian football championship at whatever level. And there will always be a challenge for this trophy, even if by amateur university or junior teams or whatever, it'll be very very prestigious to get your name on that cup, pro, amateur, what have you.

Don't get me wrong, I want the CFL to survive but as the government has said, no money for "pro" stadiums or arenas now on, so we'll have to see if we can keep the great thing the CFL is going. I hope so, I'm so sick and tired of indoor hockey money grubbing arenas that can't be used for much else sucking up this country. They are expensive to maintain and too one sportish. Not good. Hockey needs to be relegated in this country to a much lower level than what it is, it's expensive and elitist in many respects and puts a lot of pressure on communities to get the money to maintain areanas, and a lot of them.

I laugh really when I see cities like Winnipeg and QC "dying" to build some 400 million dollar arena complexes for the NHL where average players make a about a mill a year. That's a complete joke to me. What a complete misdirection of priorities in MHO. I don't get it but hey, hockey is Canada's game as they say, sort of too bad really.

Hey- I'm a big traditionalist but I'm willing to mess with Conference structures.

WEST
BC
Calgary
Edmonton
Sask

CENTRAL
Winnipeg
London
Hamilton
Toronto

EAST
Ottawa
Montreal
Quebec
Halifax

See how easy it is to make a 12 team league. :smiley:

You know, It IS frustrating that London, Windsor, Victoria, St. John's (and probably Moncton) are just that little bit too small. Maybe in 50 years....

And Mark, that's one reason I'd like to see the CFL go down the tubes so the Grey Cup could be won by so many other cities that will never be able to have a chance with the current CFL pro model. Yes, the quality of the player in amateur based university or junior would go down compared with what we have in the current CFL, I agree, but as I say...

Again, is the CFL current model viable for the long term? I don't know. :? The CFL must get a team out east and thriving, but is this possible? I'd love for cities that have a TD Waterhouse type stadium or Ron Joyce type stadium be able to vie for the Grey Cup. But I'm dreaming in technicolour which is too bad. :roll: :cry:

I guess when I come down to it, as a big CFL fan I don't really care as much as I thought if the league survives because I'm Grey Cup first, CFL way way second, type fan. But as long as I live in a CFL or close to CFL city, my money goes to the CFL, its just better football way better than the CIS or junior. Or the NFL for that matter.

Earl-
It almost sounds like you long for the days before 1954 when the ORFU teams and others could challenge the big four and the western teams for the Grey Cup. Sarnia, Balmy Beach, the Wildcats, and others.

Well, can't disagree with that Mark, albeit I wasn't born yet in 1954, two more years then I would have been a sentient being but in 1954 just a thought in my mom and dads brains. :wink:

But you know what I'm saying? The Grey Cup lives forever, CFL or no CFL, that's all. The CFL needs to get a team out east, east of Montreal that is, and soon or else I fear that even people like me may wish for the league to end. At least with the CIS you have teams coast to coast even if the calibre would be less than the CFL. That's my thinking. The CFL needs to figure out how to get a team and stadium out east, as I say, east of Montreal.

Build they will come. Expansion is just un fait accomplit at this point.
It will happen. In 5 years from now the CFL will look very different than today.
Great to see Halifax get with the times and try to build a new stadium. As they say, build and they will come..

Really hoping so geroy. It would make the CFL much more truly national.

No it doesn't work like that - you need rich OWNERS, you can build all the stadiums you want with 25,000 to 35,000 seats it doesn't mean you can support a CFL team. You need the corporate sector not just fans and there is no corporate sector in Halifax or Moncton.

Not true.
I thought the same thing until I visited Moncton and saw it for myself.
There are plenty of corporate in NB and Moncton proper.
The people and the politicians wants it and there are rich owners in the wings.
My money is with Moncton for the 10th franchise and hopefully they can come in the same year as Ottawa.

The same thing could have been said about Saskatchewan up until recently - no corporate community to support a CFL team. Despite what many GTA type people think there is business being conducted outside Southern Ontario. Plus, if they start drilling more off-shore oil rigs the economy of the Maritimes will directly increase. The CFL is still primarily a gate driven league so if they can get 20,000 people out to a game ten times a year the corporate support will follow.

The league has to first worry about the Toronto franchise. With only around 20,000 fans and weak corporate investment it's worrisome.
If a team can't work in the biggest market in Canada why would it work in Moncton or Halifax. Hamilton has been another problem for years but maybe a new stadium with private/boxes and new creative ways to generate revenue may save them.
The Argos may be able to survive in the suburbs, Torontonians just don't want to go downtown to support the Argo.
I understand Sask, it's a different culture with a strong tradition and proven fans.

Potential owners waiting in the wings in Moncton?? can't see it. Hamilton and Toronto both searched for years for owners, if it wasn't for Braley and Young the leaugue would be a 6 team league right now.

The CFL will remain an 8 or 9 team league for many years.

Moncton or Halifax should be concentrating on pro Soccer, that is the future for the two cities of that size. I could see potential investors looking at a stadiium and the soccer potential but not CFL football.
Soccer franchise may work in a 15 to 20,000 seat stadium in both cities. There is a much better chance to make money with a soccer franchise - compared to the CFL - lower salaries, two or three times as many home games, lower costs for equipment, lower ticket prices, soccer ratings on TV rising rapidly, soccer fans drink more beer and more enthusiastic........lol

It's the future!