GO access partly ruled out for Confederation Park

Well here is another strike against Confederation Park

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/768553
GO Transit, after a public information meeting in January on the proposed expansion, is recommending new stations on the CN line at James Street North, Fruitland Road and Fifty Road. The latter site was being pushed by Councillor Dave Mitchell.
and
GO ruled out establishing stations at Centennial Parkway, the Grimsby Via station, Bartlett Road in Grimsby and Victoria Avenue in Vineland. Train layovers were also rejected for James Street North, Centennial Parkway, First Street in St. Catharines and Vansickle Road in St. Catharines.
Fruitland Rd is a pretty far walk to Confederation Park for GO access, especially compared to James St North/West Harbor.

I wonder if this would put an Aldershot or Chedoke site as the frontrunner for the alternate site?

Living out of town, mass regional transit to games would make going to the games and lot easier and more fun.

Maybe if a stadium was to be built in Confederation Park they might change their mind and put a stop on Centennial Pkwy near Home Depot.

Maybe if a GO Station is being built at James St, Bob might find the West Habourfront site more attractive.

I don't think that will be possible though Matelot. I suspect the reason no GO station would be Land availability. From my understanding Walmart already has purchased the nearby land for a decent sum on the east side and the cost of expropriating them would be ludicrous (especially given Walmart's legal team) and the lot on Goderich Rd is simply too small.

Either way, I think this announcement builds a better case for either the West Harbourfront or the Downtown Core proper as the stadium site, which are pretty much my #3 and #1 preferred sites respectively. Chedoke Park is too far from a James St station and Aldershot already has the Aldershot station, which a lot of fans aren't going to go to.

Aldershot already has the Aldershot station, which a lot of fans aren’t going to go to.

Hammer, what is that supposed to mean exactly? A lot of fans aren’t going to whatever site, pick this site and some fans won’t go, pick that site others won’t go, pick this site and potential future fans won’t go, pick that site and potential future fans wont’ go - and turn this around and say fans will go… :?

One of the keys to any site is for the potential of both the stadium to be enlarged and to accomodate more potential fans and thus the potential of a larger fanbase. I think Bob has this in mind as well as any sponsors.

How does building a stadium with no regional mass transit nearby accomplish that? With no car, my transportation almost depends on the GO train or "bumming a ride".

I agree scups and that is why I think that any stadium better have excellent GO access if not right from the beginning when it opens, shortly afterwards so the team can be marketed much more regionally than it is now. What would be great is if the teenager who discovers the TiCats in Oakville can hop on the GO and get right to the stadium or near the stadium. This is important. And, of course, a teenager from say Oakville who wants to go to an event at the stadium for the Pan-Am Games, a main reason why the stadium is going to be built. In this case, of course, excellent GO access needs to be available right from the beginning for the games.

Yeah, A Grey Cup game or two would be nice!

Brox

Yes brox and therefore a site needs to be able to manage comfortably a crowd in the 45,000-55,000 range.

The Skydome was orginally planned to be 60,000 or a bit over but was scaled back because of it's location in a tight downtown. This has severly damaged the pursuit of an NFL team for Toronto as the NFL sees the stadium as not large enough. As Roger Goodell mentioned Toronto has "stadium issues". We don't want this to happen to the stadium in this region and limit the stadium for potential expansion for Grey Cups and perhaps a large TigerCat fanbase in case.

Very well, allow me to clarify my position. Almost without question, a large percentage of the Cats fanbase is completely opposed in seeing the stadium located in Burlington or Aldershot which is part of their municipality. This is due to a mixture of distance from the city proper, civic pride and taxpayer opposition to using the future fund on projects outside the municipality. In addition to that, the only locations that have easy access to the Aldershot GO are in Burlington's jurisdiction.The "Hamilton Side" of Aldershot are lands under the protection of the Royal Botanical Gardens, and a decent distance from the Aldershot GO station and too far for a James St station to service as well.

Either way, quick GO access should be a priority for any stadium site. It's the easiest way to open up the stadium to football fans coming from Toronto, Missisauga, Oakville and Burlington (without having to deal with the headache of the 403) and to the St. Catharines and Grimsby area. Confederation Park doesn't offer that GO access without a platform at Centennial Parkway. Fruitland Rd is simply too far from Confederation Park. The West Harbor and a Downtown Core site both offer that sort of quick access from a James St stop.

And hopefully a west harbourfront site will be able to comfortably manage crowds in the 45,000-55,000 range for Grey Cups. If not, then there is a problem with any harbour or downtown site for the stadium.

So with (currently) no GO train access, at near or around Confederation Park do we eliminate it as a site?

Unless we can get it back on the board, anything that is gianed by highway access is lost by the fact that anybody from out of town must drive.

SSSSsshhhhhh!!! We can't put it there

That Walmart parking lot may be the game day parking!

Well if they put the stadium on the Hamilton side of the QEW, near Confedration Park, then the stadium could be built right beside the tracks. And if the money is there, then they will build the platform on that location. The GO platforms proposed are not written in stone and can be changed based on changes to the landscape. It would be stupid not include Centennial Parkway/Red Hill Creek Expressway as one of the GO destinations, it is part of a major north/south corridor.

Brox

Forgive me for not being able to quote this figure, but I read recently that up to 21% of GTA residents use public transit almost exclusively. For Toronto and points west toward Hamilton, that could represent up to half a million avid transit users. Do the Tiger-Cats and city want to make this stadium less appealing for those fans and potential fans to make it down to the stadium?

I’d be curious to know what the breakdown is for how people currently get to TFC games at BMO Field. There is a huge parking lot on the exhibition grounds, but it is also serviced directly by two streetcar (LRT) routes and the GO train.

Hey that's great and all, but right now, it's not in the cards, give also there is a half city block separating Confederation Park from the tracks (not a big distance mind you) that sort of stops a platform going right into the stadium (which is also possible at the West Harbourfront, being right beside the CN rail yard. I'll also note again why I don't think they can build a station there, even in the future.

I suspect the reason no GO station would be Land availability. From my understanding Walmart already has purchased the nearby land for a decent sum on the east side and the cost of expropriating them would be ludicrous (especially given Walmart's legal team) and the lot on Goderich Rd is simply too small.

At any rate, this issue of GO service and where and where not exactly they will be able to have stops will come up in the discussions about the stadium and some clarity on this will happen from official Ministry and Go officials. I agree it is important to any site.

Yes I agree, having the stadium in Aldershot next to the Go station would be a great experience. Hop on the train at the James St station or come in from the other direction from the TO area. Football trains to the game - can’t do that from any other site.

Well the West Harbor location, you'd just walk the less then 350m from James St and you would be there, assuming they didn't put the station right at the CN marshaling yards (which isn't in the cards right now). To give you an impression how much of a walk it would be, It's about the same walk from the Exhibition GO station to BMO Field or Ricoh Coliseum in Toronto.

Not a problem to have GO Transit put up temporary platforms for 10 games a year....... It's not even an issue.

Councillor Brad Clark said that at last night's council meeting and referred to his experience as Minister Of Transportation......he knows these things and how it works. So this could work for Confederation Park too.