Giving up a Safety

Is it just me, But it drives me crazy when we give up a safety.
Giving up 2 points and the ball just doesn't sit right with me.
If you punt, (Bartel would have punted from about 5 yrds deep)
Given a 45 yrd punt he could have them back at our 40yrd line with good coverage.
Even if they got a field goal you would give up 1 more point, But get the ball back!
If you are against a stiff wind I could accept it but otherwise no.

Unless you have a punter with an epic leg, or a strong wind behind him, he's going to only punt it to the 45 typically if he's in the endzone. It's rare that special teams coverage on a punt manages to completely stiffle a return (espcially with the no yards rule, and that you still have linemen on special teams you simply can't make it down the field as quickly as a kickoff team) and thus a 5-10 on the return on special teams is expected.

That puts the other team already in difficult Field Goal range and three points, even before the series starts, with a chance of a touchdown against you. Even if you punt it, squelch the return and get a 2 and out, your best case scenario is still the opposing team traps you again on a punt or goofs and gets a single, barring a turnover, which you generally can't bank on unless you have a defense that is reknowned for it.

You choice is really give up 2 and get good field posistion for your defense, or almost certainly give up 1, 3 or 7 points, with the odds greatly favouring 3 and 7 with the slimest chance of just having to deal with terrible field posistion, meaning all the outcomes are generally different levels of bad. It's just not worth it unless the wind is favourable or you have an epicly strong kicker. If that's the case, if you can get it out to centre, then yes the punt is the better option, but in most cases, that doesn't happen.

I was waiting for someone else to bring this up.It has alway's drove me crazy as well the number of times in this league that this happens.It seems that if a team is inside it's own 5 yd line a safety is a given play.Agreed against a strong wind,maybe,yes,but you see it in all circumstances,even in a domed stadium,or where the wind isn't a factor.Ironic that in that other league(NFL)you rarely see this play,even though they have end zones 10 yds shorter and less field to play with,you'll see punters standing on the dead ball line almost,and they still kick the ball.Bartels last punt in the game last night sailed around it seemed 50+ yds. Yet if the Cats would have been 15 yds farther back and the score wasn't as close,a safety would have been an almost certainty.In my opinion the giving up of a safety is used far to freguently in this league.

Not only do I disagree but it is such bush league. And people don't tell me its about field possession or strategy. ITS BUSH, punt the ball and let your defense do what you pay them for. I really think the league has to come up with some rule to stop teams from doing this. You know if the punter is one yd in the endzone he's givng up to 2. You would never see that in the NFL and I know I sound like a broken record but its BUSH

The reason the NFL doesn't typically do it, is that first the uprights are at the back of the endzone, so you are effectively adding ten yards to your punt as far as a field goal is concerned. A three and out means likely no score will happen and the upcoming punt will likely be a free 20 yards on a touchback (the NFL's lamest rule). The second reason is missing a Field goal in the NFL means possesion is returned at the spot of the kick (not the line of scrimmage) or the 20 yard line (whichever gives better posistion) which makes 40+ yard field goals quite a bit more risky as they aren't returned as they are in the CFL (which usually offers limited gains) and don't offer the chance of a single if they are missed.

What's bush is having the safety in the NFL having becoming basically a meaningless, almost never seen method of scoring. What's even more bush is free yards for touchbacks and a kicks that you don't have to return, you just get free yards. That's really what kills me about the NFL, fair catches, touchbacks, the field goal rules and now talk of getting rid of kickoffs because they won't move the kickers back. You should have to return a kick or get penalized somehow if you could play it and don't, no matter what kind of kick it is. No yards is vastly superior to the fair catch rule. Oh, I'm going to get tackled, I better raise my hand. Please. Singles (as they pertain to punts) are also far better then the touchback.

I agree with both of these, giving up 2 points is just plain wrong. Look at it in the positive Bartel punts, clicks on a biggie say 50 yards let your defense do the job which at that point in the game they were doing well. If we did not give up the two the last second field goal does not happen. As for all you naysayers I said I am looking at the positive not the negative meaning our defense holds. I believe at that part of the game chances were better than 50% the defense would have held.

The two point concede is used way too much in this league.

I have no doubt our defense would have prevented a touchdown, however I doubt our defense would have completely squleched the return and got a 2 and out and kept them out of field goal range.

If we give up a field goal then we are down 1 point on the exchange but WE GET THE BALL!!
If we then drive to field goal range, its a wash

Yes, but if take the safety and stop them, even after 3 or 4 first downs, (which is a lot easier to do) we get the ball back and a field goal puts us ahead. Nevermind that with the punt, you still leave them in good field position, which means a high chance of them scoring a touchdown as well, even more so if you are punting into the wind.

8) Remembering back to the good old days, and glory days of the TiCats, when Ralph Sazio would never concede a safety.
 He used to say, you never give the opposition any points at all, willingly.  Make them earn every point !!

  Mind you, Ralph had probably the best punter in CFL history, as far as kicking into the wind goes.....Mr. Joe Zuger   <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?id=1653659

For the record, safeties have been given up intentionally in the NFL before. When the Pats gave a safety against the Broncos the NFL punditry heralded it as a smart move. Those were exceptional circumstances (score/time), but I remember watching it happen in real time and thinking that it made sense (of course, it's easy to say that after the fact).

It's a case by case thing. In Guelph the wind tends to knock down kicks pretty good from time to time so coming out of the one end zone is a risky proposition. Add in the risk of a big return, block, shank or bad snap and just giving the two isn't necessarily so bad when the wind is in your face.

Funny you should mention Ralph Sazio and safeties,Tipper!! Ralph won the Grey Cup in '65' because of exactly what you said.In the wind bowl Grey Cup that year,Bud Grant and his Bombers conceded 3 safeties because of the windy conditions and guess what? they were the margin of defeat,as Ralph and the Cats won the Cup by a 22-16 score.Essentially the Bombers conceded the Grey Cup to us by giving up the safety 3 times,instead of punting.Oh.....by the way our punter that day was indeed a guy called Mr. Joe Zuger!!!

http://cfl.ca/greycupcentral/year/1965 you can read about it here!!!!ENJOY!!! :cowboy:

Well yeah but I think Joe Zuger qualifies as a punter with an epic leg though, espcially when he averaged over 48 yards a punt some seasons and to this day nearly half a century later, he's still third in all time highest punting average and highest single season punting average.

8) Thanks for that link bobo. Brings back some great memories. I attended that great 1967 Grey Cup game in Ottawa.
  Yep, I still maintain that Ralph Sazio was by far the best HC the Cats have ever had.  His record speaks for itself.

  5 years as HC, 4 Grey Cup appearances, winner of 3 of them !!   <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->

The CFL modified it's safety rules three years ago which has substantially cut down on the number of "intentional" safeties. The league moved the kickoff back 5 yards (to the 25 yd line) after a safety. Now most teams will punt from their goal line rather than giving up the safety.

The safety option is still there...like when a team has to punt from 10 yds deep in the endzone...and/or facing a stiff headwind. The safety option helps keep teams in the game, especially in blustery prairie games.

Do NOT kick out of your endzone...give UP the safety.
If you punt from the 5 yard line and net 40 yards which is decent the opposition can run two plays up the middle for 8 yards and kick a 44 yard FG for a plus 1.
I would have to say this is a best case scenario.
I would ALWAYS give up the safety unless it was VERY close to the end of the half or game.
With or against the wind.

First of all nob cheese the field is alot smaller so the rules are going to be different, you want to talk about free yds, 80% of the punts in cfl result in no yards some 15 yds penalty so you can take away your free yd theroy, and the reason for the fair catch is safety, if the returner doesn't feel the return is set up and the blockers are not where they're suppose to be you call the faircatch and also cause they don't have the rediculous 5yd rule. And they will never get rid of kickoffs theybwill just move the kickers back. And another reason why I don't agree with giving up the 2pts is cfl kickers hardly attempt a FG over 40 yds, are they terrible, when was the last time you saw a kicker attempt a 52 yd FG to win the game nooooo instead lets punt it through the end zone for a single ( if the game were tied) pal don't even try to compare the nfl to the cfl, my summer is only to pass time to get to the start of the nfl pre season cause I would rather watch nfl pre than the grey cup

Yet you posted a thread in which you predicted the Grey Cup final score of Riders 30 Cats 27. Weird for a guy that would rather watch NFL pre season then the Grey Cup don't you think?

I agree that it is being used way too much but there are things that factor into this overused strategy over the last few years at least.
First, 2012 in specific was the year of the returner. This has already been well addressed and has been an obvious point of emphasis to improve coverage teams. Without any official stats in front of me. From just watching games coverage teams have been fantastic across the board for every team.

The second is a problem with not placing more emphasis on saving a roster spot for a big legged punter.
Some teams have caught on such as the Riders in no doubt keeping Ricky S has been a huge advantage for them on both punts and kickoffs.
While Montreal is not changing with the times and continue to put little emphasis on the kicking game as a whole by continuing to use one kicker do all job where Whyte is clearly not a CFL calibre punter.
I know from reading other threads that this is sore point with many Als fans.
The best way to flip the field is to have a big legged punter to go along with a top notch coverage team and not give up two points so easily.

Yes, but a kicking team can avoid the no yards call. No yards isn't free yards, it's a penalty for the kicking teams attempt to squelch the return and potentially trying to injure the returner, and a 15 yard penalty is substantial enough to encourage players not to do it. Any coach, NFL or CFL would be happy to take 15 on a return, all day, every day and few coaches I know are content with giving up 15 yards at any time, espcially when the player was clearly in a posistion where he could have made a play that would have only given up around 2 or 3 yards.

The reason for the fair catch is safety, if the returner doesn't feel the return is set up and the blockers are not where they're suppose to be you call the faircatch and also cause they don't have the rediculous 5yd rule.
You pretty much summed up why the fair catch rule is lame. "Oh, I'm the returner, and I don't feel like returning the ball because the other team did the right thing this play and my team didn't block right. I'm gonna sit this play out" please, it's copping out on a play.
And they will never get rid of kickoffs theybwill just move the kickers back.
Then why don't they? In fact, why did they move the kickoff line UP to the 35 in 2011. It's not like they couldn't have moved it back again after they saw how many more touchbacks are happening as a result. For Player safety? More like for an extra commerical break because of the assured touchback.
And another reason why I don't agree with giving up the 2pts is cfl kickers hardly attempt a FG over 40 yds, are they terrible, when was the last time you saw a kicker attempt a 52 yd FG to win the game
Well Fri, Aug 02, 2013 there was a 45 yrd attempt to win the game. The Pre-season game on Fri, Jun 14, 2013 BC had to kick a 47 to win with a 1:17 left, but I believe 2011 Saturday, Oct. 8, 2011 Paul McCallum kicked a 53 to win, so fairly recently. Nevermind most coaches, in either league would say kicking from 50+ is a desperation move.
Nooooo instead lets punt it through the end zone for a single ( if the game were tied)
Yes, that leads to exciting end game plays like this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5BFaykcxGg
pal don't even try to compare the nfl to the cfl, my summer is only to pass time to get to the start of the nfl pre season cause I would rather watch nfl pre than the grey cup
and the truth comes out, you don't even a crap about the CFL, and I'm sure if they changed the rules so they were carbon copies of the NFL you wouldn't care because "CFL players suck". You are exactly the kind of fan the league doesn't need or should cater to.