Why in the hell would Tillman trade one of our best defensive players for some 2nd or 3rd string QB.WHAT THE HELL! :x :thdn:
Lots of reasons:
Jyles is a pretty decent young Quarterback with some experience and has played well when he has played. The Eskimos were extremely pleased with him and they have a great history of nurturing young Quarterbacks. And we are going to need one pretty soon. Maybe even this year?
Quarterbacks are expensive trade commodities. Remember what we got when we traded "Rocky" Butler to Hamilton? Personally, I think we got Jyles rather cheaply.
Kerry Joseph is already whinning about wanting more money and unless he gets it, he may just retire. If the 'riders want to keep Joseph happy and pay him more, salary cap issues need to be addressed.
Perry is 32 and slowing down and his best years are definately behind him. John Chick is the star player on the D' Line now. The 'riders have a couple of young linemen on the roster now (Ville and Curvey) and I think they will get a shot at replacing Perry. I think the 'riders will also have Kyle Mitchell (who I personally really like) and Turrell Jurineack (who has had terrible luck with the injury bug). Marcus Adams replaced Nate Davis last year and played in my opinion better than Davis did the year before.
If the 'riders want to keep the "fire in the tank" for next year, the 'riders will have to bring in new players at the expense of veterans. The only way to challange for a repeat for the Grey Cup is to make changes.
The 'riders move up 6 spots in the 2nd round at the draft this year, which is significant. Our Canadian talent is aging especially on the O'Line and with the exception of Fantuz, our younger Canadian talent are at best adequate backups and special team players. We need Canadian talent at Safety, the O' Line, and the D' Line, and not backups but starters.
The 'riders will not have both Crandell and Joseph on the roster this year. One will have to go. Hopefully we can keep Joseph. If that is the case, we need a backup and neither Durant or Tate are ready for the job in my opinion.
Most importantly...Tillman knows what he is doing. Let the man do his job. He gave us a champion and I suspect he wants to do the same. Personally I trust him. People whinned when he let that fat lazy belly bumbing slob Nate Davis go and that did not hurt our defense one little bit.
On a personal note, I was not much of a Fred Perry fan. I thought he was over rated and it was John Chick who consistently had the big games for us.
John Chcik made all the plays because Fred Perry was getting assraped most plays.
Chick was good because of Perry? Talk about a pile of SIT edited.
Not sure I like this trade. Have my doubts. Time will tell. But saying Chick is only good because of Perry. Thats total BS. Did you watch the playoffs and grey cup?
Does anyone care to think that ET is going to be signing a "younger" more effective DE to replace Perry, at a LOWER salary? Remember, MOST of the major player moves have been for SALARY CAP reasons. Don't get me wrong, I like Perry, but considering his age (33) and salary (115g's), plus wanting to renegotiate a contract that was signed AFTER winning the GC, I'm getting the impression that someone's ego was getting overly inflated. We suspect that we're over the Salary Cap for 2007, so we need to trim the excess salaries so we can sign other impact players for 2008. ET proved he could assemble a GC team in 2007, with ALOT of new players. Let's see if 2008 will be a repeat performance, or a total flop!!
Fred Perry is still a force to be reckoned with! I remember wondering if changes would be made to our D-line. They kinda stopped looking like the force they used too. When Adams was resigned, I wondered what would happen. You know Schultz isn't going anywhere. Chick is young and prosperous. That leaves Fred. But I have to say, you could knock me over with a feather when I heard this news.
This had to be a salary dump. Otherwise it makes no sense. We need Jyles like we need another ahole. I guess we'll see what happens pre Feb 15th.
I don't see Tillman making any big moves for FA's. I just see him probably giving Joesph a new contract which he feels he deserves. Maybe he'll use the money to keep Eddie Davis. Je ne sais pas!
I love the fact that we apparently got Jyles pretty cheap.
Last year, ET was heralded as a genious for exacting such a fine price for Rocky Butler.
This year he remains a genious for getting Jyles?
I can't say that is a very consistant argument.
If you just look at the players involved, we got fleeced in this one.
All-star DE, who frankly has been a monster the last two years (70 tackles--for a DE? That is insane).
And we get Edmonton's 4th string QB?
And move up a whopping 6 spots in the draft?
Maybe Jyles will become the next superstar in the league. Maybe.
Or maybe he gets cut after the first exibition game.
That is where he stands. I pencil him in behind Durant going in, and ET told everyone last year that Tate was the future. Plus why do we have 8 QBs on our neg list?
No the reasons why this deal was made seem fairly obvious.
Age had to be somewhat of a factor. Cap space was another.
But according to Vanstone's latest article, ET just re-signed Fred to a new deal. Now maybe he re-signed him, to make him more tradable.
But with the rumour that Fred was actually trying to redo that deal mere weeks after he signed it, it looks like another case of my way or the highway for ET.
And that is fair enough, I supppose.
Just wish I could say I thought we got a decent return for our commodity.
Some of you guys are comparing Chick to Fred. And that is fair. When Chick plays an entire season the way he played in the play-offs, then you can tell me he has arrived.
Meanwhile, I like Chick. And I do believe he has a ton of upside.
But Fred Perry was one of the 5 best ends in the league the last two years.
And if we fail to adequately replace Fred Perry this year, our D-line has taken a major blow.
Holy Sheet! Did anyone catch Mitchell Blair's comments on this trade? It's posted on Newstalk 650's website here: http://www.newstalk650.com/incoming/200 ... erry-trade
Cut and paste:
Posted February 9, 2008 - 10:34am by Mitchell Blair
"Like many of you, I was left scratching my head when informed by Rider communications man extraordinaire Ryan Whippler about the Fred Perry trade to Edmonton. It simply didn't make sense. I knew there had to be more behind the story. Upon having a conversation with Eric Tillman, it did. Before rolling, Tillman told me many things and he has now revealed some of those things on the Riders website. If he is letting those statements be released, then I will pass them on. Plain and simple, Fred Perry was not an ideal citizen and not an ideal teammate. Eric described him to me as "a financial train wreck". Creditors are after him and he owes one of his teammates ( a player that I will not name) a large amount of $$$$$$. This is not someone who I think Rider players want in their dressing room. He is a little unsavoury if you ask me and I commend Eric for getting rid of what could turn out to be a bad dynamic in that room. A room that as you know needs to be on the same page......"
This is crazy! It's amazing what happens behind the scenes, but if it's true, then I don't blame ET. It's too bad really. But, I am a little surprised ET got into the private details, but it does explain a few things. I guess he proably views it like it's his head on a platter from Rider Nation, so it's time to defend himself.
You can't be a little more PC? :lol:
Well if Eric is telling stories again. I wonder long it will be before Fred Perry starts talking. I suspect he will have a few nice things to say about Eric.
Jman makes a good point. One of the reasons that Chick and Adams were so good, is because Perry was doubled by 2 maybe even 3 o-linemen, leaving them open to knock the QB on his ass. This was a bad move in my opinion.
Perry was contacted by the media, but all the callers got was an answering service....if he ain't talking....what does that mean? Is Perry hiding something? Especially in light of Mitchell Blair's comments on Newstalk 650/980!
Find another team Mike. Negative. Negative. Negative. Everything Tillman says is a lie. Same story with you. Over and over. Maybe try BC. Your one and only Shivers is there. If Perry signed a deal in December and wanted a new deal in February. Would you give it to him? If so Im glad your not our gm.
Are you seriously asking me if I watched those games?
I think you should ask yourself that exact question.
In 2006, Fred Perry got 14 sacks. In 2007, he got 8. If the trend continues (which they generally do when it comes to athletes, especially aging ones) Perry could expect to get at most 5 sacks this year. Worth a $115,000 a year and give up a chance to acquire a promising young QB and move up six positions in the draft in a league where you MUST dress a certain number of Canadians each game? I think not.
He is aging. He will not be better this year, or even as good as he was last year which was a drop off compared to the year before. Come on people, I am 48, and I when I was in my 30's I was fit and active (being in the army) and there were things I could not do when I was 34, that I could do when I was 26. I was slower, weaker and less aggressive. Age does that do you. Science proves it. Only elite athletes can occasionally prove science wrong and if Fred Perry was an elite athlete, he would be a linebacker in the NFL.
Sometimes I wish I had my subscription to Ridercult.com.
I wonder if you are paraphrasing ET (except the personal aspect).
So following your theory, Fred went from 47 tackles in 2006, to 70 in 2007, so it is reasonable to expect him to get 104 in 2008, right?
All-star Jon Brown, who happens to be the same age as Fred, had 13 sacks in 2005, 6 in 2006, and was back up to 13 in 2007.
How is that possible?
Sacks are only one measure of a players performance, and generally an overrated one at that. They depend on a certain amount of luck, plus most DC will tell you pressure is what they want--sacks are just bonus. If your DBs don't do their job, nobody gets sacks. It is a team thing.
And if ET didn't think Fred was worth 115,000, then how come he just finished signing him for that amount.
Even ET's version of this story doesn't support your theory.
Anyway, all that is extra. I just found it astonishing that you would print that nonsense about, "if Fred were good, he'd be in the NFL"
Most of the players in the CFL are tremendous athletes--and are in far better condition than your average grunt in the army.
As far as I know, Fred takes pretty good care of himself.
Yes, at 33, his age is becoming an issue. But that is not ancient for a DE either.
Given his production last year (70 tackles is a monster year for a DE, whether you like it or not)at that age, there is no reason to predict such a dramatic drop off in 2008 that this deal suddenly looks sweet.
Jyles might be a star...or he might be a bust. It is pure speculation. The fact that we have two guys already that fit that description, plus ET has fully 25% of our neg list dedicated to QBs (8), QB doesn't seem to be a real need for us.
Moving up 6 spots in the draft?
I spit on your 6 spots.
Go look at the draft picks for the last several years. Tell me how much more successful the guys drafted 10th have been than the guys drafted 16th.
The difference, if there is a difference at all, is negligable.
So we got very little there.
The old adage is, "the team that gets the best player wins the trade".
If that is true, we got fleeced.
Even from a cap viewpoint, this is tough to figure.
Tops, we gained 40 thou.
More likely, we saved about 25,000--35,000--figuring Fred's replacement at 80-90.
Given all the rumours flying about, it looks like ET made a panic move.
I don't want the GM making panic moves....
Good points Arius! It kinda makes me P.O. that as soon as a Rider player is traded or leaves via FA, he's instantly seen as on a downward spiral or his best years are behind him. Or he struggled at this point or that point of the season. All football players struggle at some point of the season. Even if Fred doesn't have the numbers in Edmonton he had in Sask, it's Edmonton, their defence and coaching is a joke.
There is something really fishy about this trade. You don't just trade a player when he asks for a new contract. Especially your best defensive player. We got squat in this trade. Jyles is largely unproven, and going from 16th to 10th in the draft is very minute when you look at the history of the draft. Something happened behind closed doors between Fred/Tillman and probably someone else. Tillman is trying his best to spin this one. There is obviously a reason he made this move. The whole SMS and Freds age just doesn't add up when you look at what we got in return for the trade and the fact that Tillman resigned Fred after the Grey Cup. Why the sudden 180 Tillman? Tillman's hiding something.
As long as we continue to be a strong team in the West, I don't care. But I know B.S. when I hear it. I guess in time, prehaps it will come out.
Actually, ET isn't hiding very much.
It appears, this trade definately had very little to do with age and cap space.
It had everything to do with Fred apparently getting into some financial troubles.
And then you can believe all of what ET says and the rumours that go with it or not.
We haven't heard Fred Perry's side yet.
ET says Fred owed a teamate money (rumour has it Crandell--they owned a business together) and so he asked ET to renegotiate his contract, in order to get a signing bonus.
ET essentially said no, they apparently agreed to let Perry talk to other teams (Edmonton) who agreed to what Fred wanted, so the deal was made.
There are a lot of gaps in the story, to many he said, I said, he said aspects, for my taste.
But it does not seem that performance, age, or cap space were the primary motivations here.
Now that doesn't mean that once the other stuff came to the fore, ET didn't just shrug his shoulders and decide the grief wasn't worth it, if he could get "cap space and some players".
But the order of events is worth noting here.
Bring back Shivers. Bring back Ford. Then we can lose again. Nothing to panic about.