FIRE TURK SCHONERT!!!!!!!!

Fire his arse now! Enough of this! More to come!

[i]Hey Turkey, help a young QB out! Give up on the run. Stop throwing passes to Rutley who rips off big gains. Throw 30 yard bombs twice in a row to the same spot in the end zone when you can get a fresh set of downs.

FIRE SCHONERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/i]

He's got this season to prove that he has a future in this league. So far, he hasn't impressed. Better learn quick, Turk, or this could be it for your pro coaching career...

Johnny you remind me of Donald Trump, who, like yourself finds some perverse satisfaction in firing decent people!!

Wow, that is a real thoughtful comment :roll: Johnny thinks that people who cannot do a certain job, should not have that job. It has nothing to do with attacking anyone's decency.

The thing with Schonert (and it's same problem we had with Mike Miller IMO) is that NFL pedigree doesn't necessarily mean success in the NFL. Both Schonert and Miller were failures as NFL coordinators. Trestman, by contrast, had success with multiple NFL teams (San Francisco and Oakland); he guided Rich Cannon to his most productive passing season, reached the Superbowl once, and generally established himself as a very keen offensive mind. You saw it in his first year with Chicago, too; that offense was humming even with Cutler at the controls.

Schonert? Nothing but mediocrity with the Buffalo Bills before he was canned. To me, it's useless to bring ex-NFL coaches to the CFL if they haven't succeeded in the pros. If they didn't succeed in the NFL, why would they magically transform into good coaches up here?

I can't remember of a failed NFL coach that has been successful in the CFL. There might have been some but I can't think of one. Huf and Trestman were highly regarded as OC/QB coaches and Tedford as well in the NCAA.

I don't think firing anyone in season will do anything for this team. Schonert is a rookie OC with a rookie QB, you have to give them a season and evaluate after.

The Als have a number of issues on this team and right now are not as good as the other 3 Eastern teams, regardless and in spite of the coaching staff. Best that can be hoped for this year is to groom Cato and give some playing time to young guys so they can make a bigger contribution next season. This team got old quickly, kind of reminds me of the Bombers from a decade ago that got old overnight.

Yup. The key is whether the coach had success in his previous job. Trestman and Hufnagel came with a record of success. Schonert, Miller, Bart Andrus, Gary Crowton, et al. -- not so much.

I don't think firing anyone in season will do anything for this team. Schonert is a rookie OC with a rookie QB, you have to give them a season and evaluate after.
Agreed. As much as it pains me to watch the team, a coaching purge will not save our season or do us any good. Give Schonert the whole year with Cato and see where the chips fall at season's end. Save the bloodletting for the offseason.
The Als have a number of issues on this team and right now are not as good as the other 3 Eastern teams, regardless and in spite of the coaching staff. Best that can be hoped for this year is to groom Cato and give some playing time to young guys so they can make a bigger contribution next season. This team got old quickly, kind of reminds me of the Bombers from a decade ago that got old overnight.
Agreed.

Schonert had 1 season in the NFL as an offensive co-ordinator with Trent Edwards and JP Losman at QB. You want to judge him off of that, you`re again scraping for confirmation bias.

You're the same guy who wants to write off Michael Sam after one game and you're talking about confirmation bias. :lol: Put it this way: if Schonert was any good, wouldn't he have found work elsewhere in the NFL? He was coaching in the UFL afterwards. He wasn't highly regarded as an NFL coordinator.

Now, having said that, I am still willing to give Schonert the year, because really, we have no choice. He's a rookie CFL OC and we have to see whether he can adapt. But as I said before, if you look at ex-NFL or college coaches coming to the CFL, the track record is not pretty unless they had actually succeeded in the NFL or NCAA.

Not at all what I wrote. I said we would have an idea after a couple of games whether he will be successful or not. I certainly want him to do well. We went to the first training camp practice specifically to see him and get his autograph.

Right. So you can judge a player based on two games in which he maybe gets a total of 15 reps in a rotation, but I can't assess a coach's work through an entire NFL season? Sure.

Schonert, like Miller and Andrus before him, did not succeed in the NFL. Was that all on him? No, but it's telling that he was not able to find work after that except in the UFL. We'll see what he can do in Montreal, but if he can't get results after one full CFL season, why would anyone assume he's any good? At some point, you have to do something with the opportunity you've been given.

When you say young guys, are you referring to both sides of the ball?
I for one, would have youth in before Lewis. To me he brings very little to the offense other than a few yards after a catch.
I would have rather had a younger player in the position learning and as you say "bigger contribution" next season.

Yes, where guys are not producing. I have no issue with Nick Lewis production so far but on offense. I am not happy with LBJ and Giguere, however Giguere did show some grit in the last game. For the first time I saw a real stiff arm and him trying to break tackles. I have no problems with the Als playing Davidson, Hoffman or Bryant... On defense Bowman, Brouillette, Parker, Brown and Hefney have no impressed me with their play this year.

[url=http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2008/9/30/625060/bills-rams-film-review-bil]http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2008/9/ ... review-bil[/url]

Week to week, Buffalo struggled to find its identity on offense. Lynch and Fred Jackson should have been a lethal complementary tandem. Instead their carries fluctuated week after week. There was no rhythm in Turk Schonert’s grand, master plan.

Sound familiar? He had Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson in their physical prime and couldn’t run the ball effectively. We’ll see if he learns his lessons after what happened in the second half against Ottawa…

I think Parker has been solid. The rest, I agree, but it's hard to judge the secondary when there is no pass rush and they have to cover forever...

True. Hard to argue the math; how can anyone expect 3 guys rushing to get pressure on the opposing QB when he has 5 offensive lineman to give him protection? 3 vs. 5. . . not gonna happen. Not even against Winnipeg's offensive line.

We can all see that.

Why can't Thorpe??

Jack, if I knew, I'd be rich. :wink:

It's so bizarre. I could understand if Thorpe were a rookie coordinator new to the league, but this is the third year of his defense and he's a veteran CFL coach. We went from an attack-dog defense to this passive crap and I'm struggling to understand why. Maybe Johnny is right -- maybe this is a gross overreaction to the rules changes, something Thorpe did anticipating that the game would play a certain way which hasn't happened. There is no other logical explanation for a good coach choosing to abandon a system that was working fine in favor of something so clearly ineffective. As John Madden used to say, "The only thing a prevent defense prevents is a win."

. . . and add to that, he's been using this "prevent" defence in the first bloody quarters, and on first downs to boot. Insanity.

There are a few situations in which a three-man "prevent" front is justifiable:

  • On the last play of the first half if the other team has the ball and isn't in field goal range
  • On the last one or two plays of the second half if you are leading by a touchdown and anything short of a TD for the other team means you win
  • If the other team is in second and a mile (second and 20 or worse) and you trust your back eight to come up and make a play to keep the ball-carrier short of the first down (and even this should be used sparingly, as a change-up playcall; it shouldn't be what you throw at the other team all the time)

Using three-man prevent on first down in the first quarter of a football game ... is just insane (as you noted). It's precisely this looniness that makes me wonder if Higgins is meddling and telling Thorpe to "play it safe"...