Face facts We have to fix this City

Yes its not like its rammed full with concert dates and events we have a hockey team who attract 3500 people and for how long did it sit empty with no permanent tenant or a jr hockey team. It was a site that was over built and 8,000 seats would have been a much better number. We over built an arena that very rarely in its existance has been used to its full potential. That is how its a burden it was something that should have never been built to begin with and certainly has done nothing to bring people back downtown.

Copps was built in the hopes of landing an NHL team.

Forces that control the relocation or expansion of a team was and still is out of the hands of City government. In order to be a player in the process it had to be built first.

If Copps was never built then that would have guranteed Ham. be excluded from any NHL interest and no doubt gurantee complaints City government has no "vision"

So to blame the city for Copps being "empty" or being an example of a City "mistake" is disengenuous if not flat out incorrect.

Free money? You must be a Liberal or NDP zombie. All the funds you just spoke about would have to come from taxes. That means its MY money, my neighbour's money, your money. Because of that, it needs to be managed with the utmost of care. Throwing it into a lost cause is not only stupid, it is a breach of trust and fiduciary duty. (A breach that, because of the general immunity of political action of this type, would go unpunished).

I don't often give any kind of kudos to the city but anyone would have to admit once they realized Copps wasn't going to have an NHL team playing in it they do as good a job as anyone could at making sure it's used as much as possible.
From Billy Graham to Monster Trucks it's not often somebody's not using it.

Agreed. If the Tiger-Cats are out for sure, then I do not want a Pan Am stadium built in Hamilton.

BTW, that`s why I put quotes around free . Of course it is not free in the truest sense. The point is this is a unique oppurtunity for the city to get huge bang for their buck.

Agreed. Well stated. :thup:

Yes, I`ve enjoyed many memeorable events there. Many!

Canada Cup, World juniors, The Brier, NBA basketball, countless concerts, Calder Cups etc...

Just the Mayor? All sides are using the emotional attachment of many Hamiltonians to their hometown and their football team to try to make their case.

At least the Mayor has, right there in his job description, the interests of the city of Hamilton and it's residents current and future. He sees this as a catalyst project for an undervalued harbourfront (leading to future development,public and private), and as an economic engine that will bring in tens of millions of outside gov't dollars that will be spent mainly on labour to build and pave and detoxify. Whether he's right or wrong about the urban renewal prospects of a stadium, I can see how he can believe that this it has a greater chance of delivering integrated economic benefits down the road than building a stand-alone venue and parking lot in a field, which might be a better place for a stadium but will contribute nothing to the future economic development of the city. It's self-contained projects built in fields (Limeridge, Eastgate, Fiesta Mall, Meadowlands Power Centre etc.) that killed the downtown and downtowns across North America in the first place, after all.

The other parties, they have different job descriptions. Nothing wrong with that, and if they build their own stadium they can corner the market on economic benefits and no one will have any reason to object.

The fact is that any stadium the city builds anywhere will be a white elephant, and an economic drain if only operating revenues and costs are considered. The real story should be whether this one-time infusion of cash can be a catalyst for future opportunties - I guess the difference of opinion is what those future opportunities will be and who should get to keep the revenue from them.

I have another idea, if Mr. Young won't play in the west harbour - take the gov't money, create a bunch of great-paying jobs for five years cleaning up and building a stadium in the west harbour and then, after the Pan Ams, tear the stadium down. You've got it all - lots of good jobs in the near term, a nice clean area to sell to other businessmen with more vision to build on, no traffic or parking woes, no long term stadium upkeep costs. Young can continue to play at IW until it falls down around him or he finds another city with a meadow beside a highway that wants a CFL team enough to build him a stadium - who knows, by that time, maybe one of the big SuperWalMarts will have been adandoned it's field 1/2 way to Caledonia to build a SuperDuperWalMart on a field halfway to Dover, and the Cats can play in the abandoned big box. Lots of parking in those places.

Just remember though some of the reason Hamilton was awarded this stadium was to replace IWS. Mr. Braley has already stated that the commitee could step in and block the habour front or even take away this thing. Really the city holds little leverage in the matter other then saying thats ok we don't want the games go build your own stadium Bob. There is no option for the city to do this on their own I don't think.

There is a difference between what the Pan Am Host Corporation needs and what it wants. At a minimum, it needs a 15,000 seat track and field stadium and a velodrome. The City of Hamilton can confirm to the Pan Am Host Corporation on May 17/10 that it has agreed to commit $60 Million toward delivering those facilities at the West Harbour, that it has been working on its commitment over the past three months, and that it intends to meet the basic needs of the Pan Am Host Corporation within the timelines allowed. This is the default position unless and until something better comes along.

What the Pan Am Host Corporation wants, and what we would all surely like to see, is a collaborative effort between the City of Hamilton and the Hamilton Tiger-Cats to develop a sports legacy facility that will serve the Hamilton community for the next 50 years. These two entities need to find some common ground as soon as possible.

Then they could name it "Sheila Copps Stadium".

UNFAIR YES,

Here we seat assuming that Bob Young will pony up millions more dollars into a project he deems unworthy. Our Mayor assumed or even lets say was lead to believe (benefit of doubt) that 10's of millions would be forth coming to convert 15000 seat new stadium in CFL standards.

Thats all well and good until the wheels fell off the cart this week. We have a city backed proposal thats not backed by the tenant its meant to satisfy. Whats unfair is that the City (landlord) is expecting the tenant (TiCats) to invest 50 million dollars into this project so they can simply rent the venue? This arrangement does not justify the teams investment nor does the location in their eyes.

Lets be real here, the Mayor represents the tax dollars he is not reaching into his own pocket any more then anyone else. The only one being asked to give til it hurts is Bob Young, the fact that he has not walked fully away from Hamilton is the plus and where the focus needs to be today. So I say again IMO this entire process has been nothing but UNFAIR to the one who is expected to anti up this huge amount of cash with little say regarding its return.

Both sides need to venture out on their own, the City needs to build this stadium for the Games period even if it means tearing it down post games, and Bob Young needs to forge his own plan even if that means we loose our TiCats.

Therefore at the end of the day we will have spent 60 million cleaning up one brown field, sounds dumb to me.

Does it? Are you sure?

Can't the city of Hamilton say, "The Tiger-Cat are out. We do not want to spend $60m on a stadium?"

Well Captain, I see it this way. If the City pulls the plug because the TiCats aernt in, then thats saying the TiCats are the most important partner in this project, and if thats the case why wasnt that stated and displayed from one day. If the Pam Am group pulls the plug I think the Mayor pays the price as this would be his failure. Lets assume the plan continues without the TiCats what else can happen other then to build the stadium the Pam Am Games require?

Sadly I believe as the Mayor has stated "its full stream ahead" we will be the proud owners of a lovely LITTLE stadium down by the water !! Sounds great eh !

Pulling the plug because the TiCats are out would give Bob Young so much power over City Hall that he will be able to right his own ticket and demand anything he wants.

Unless Hosco pulls the plug .. a 15000 seater is what we will get, at least the Rheem Site will be clean. Yippi

HosCo will not get into an intestinal problem, its none of their business what happens to the stadium after the games. As long as the mayor commits to buidling it there is nothing they will or can do. The mayor pretty much confirmed he was going ahead with or without Young and even stated that he would destroy Ivor Wynn once the new stadium is built !

The City Councilors can put the brakes the the mayor but since Young has not made a commitment to any other site. There is a huge risk to them however, let's assume they get Young his moratorium and at the end of 90 days nothing works out what happens ? the whole political office of the city will be destroyed and Young will go home with his ball.

It might have been a better approach for Young to take the approach that while he tried to convince partners he failed... instead of making a mortal enemy with the mayor. Nothing good is going to come of this now...

I think we will see this week that Bob has painted himself into a corner, possibly on purpose otherwise he would have put some meat behind an alternative.

It's been 10 years since I lived in the Hammer. I was there from 1994-2000. One area I remember being truly blown away by it's run down look was north of Barton in north central Hamilton. I understand it is around industry but I mean it almost seemed like I was in some poor country. Even the more sketchy areas look nicer.

Has it been cleaned up at all?

Zenstate, I have worked in that area since 1976, some years ago the City did rebuild Barton st from Sanford to Wellington, adding parking islands light standards and lots of flower pots. Looks better in the warmer months, lol . The area itself overall I would say it has improved some, but not due to City help. Its more of a situation where some wonderful younger people are taking advantage of cheap housing to get into the market and begin their lifes as adults. However the area is still a mix of great people and undesirables and in my opinion it has been forgotten by City Hall. Making it worse has been the closing of so many industrial Business' thus making for many ugly vacant buildings and lots. Not to long ago a movie was filmed on Barton St from Lottridge looking west along Barton. The scene was a blown up area after an alien attack, one must wonder why the production company decided that section of Barton st would suit the scene?

I guess if the last time you saw the area you gave it a "D" lets say its improved to a "C-" thanks to alot of amazing young folks that have fixed up the only homes they could afford.