Even with this loss the Bombers D showed up good and shut down Toronto completely. The team will be fine although offensively the Bombers 5 yard passes are not going to win a grey cup. Look at MTL and BC they throw a lot of passes over 10 yards–
I understand the O line is poor, but i question the ability of the O line schemes and the individual O line. It doesent matter who is playing QB, they are all getting hurt–
I think this loss is a tough one because now MONTREAL basically even with Mcpherson at the HELM will easily win the DIVISION-
Division winners dont lose games like this, Bombers did, but I guess reality is that both Edmonton and Winnipeg are digressing-
I hope Winnipeg can rebound next week and beat MONTREAL, but I dont see it, as I think this offense might set records for most 2 and outs and general futility. The schemes are a complete joke, all hooks and screens–
MEMO TO LAPOLICE-- YOUR OFFENSE sucks since you brought in GREG CARR- Greg CARR is not a smart player, he has NO HEART at all- -Put back IN TJ HARRIS, he was dangerous and a much better football player–
This excellent defense is going to get wasted, if the offense doesent figure it out soon, losing back to back to SASK who is not a good team as BC showed exposed the Winnipeg offense for what it is.
I hope BUCK CAN QB next week, cause if he doesent MCPHERSON is going to walk into Canada Inns stadium and win the game easily as Winnipeg wont score on MONTREAL next week.
...we got torpedoed by some VERY QUESTIONABLE calls...If that same crew is going to do the game in the Peg...Als.might as well take the two points now :lol:
Greg Carr almost won us the game, Gridiron Guru. If not for the offside penalty we get 35 yards instead of 10 out of that and probably kick a game-winning FG. I don't know why he so maligned. He hasn't been nearly as bad as people think. The offense didn't suck today because of Greg Carr, it was actually pretty awesome considering we played with Brink for 1.5 quarters and Goltz for almost another one. Edwards' fumble and a bad spot on a short yardage gamble by Brink were the main reasons we didn't put up more points. They moved the ball well.
There is one positive from Brink getting hurt.. we got to see that incredibly epic catch. But ahh I wish it were just a minor injury and Brink came back in after that pass..
Proulx was awful in the two Saskatchewan games, I didn't have a problem with him today.
Calls were ridiculous and did COST the bombers the game. However should the game have come down to a few calls vs the ARGOS?
I dont know how you can play any better on defense, and not win the game?
Lets hope that BUCK and BRINK are okay- We need them both--
Even with Mcpherson starting a game or 2 Winnipeg cannot think they will win for sure. Jyles is nothing compared to Mcpherson and he won tonight somehow--
I have this feeling that Winnipeg is going to fall apart? It seems that the offense is getting worse and the O line is a complete joke--
I hope the Bombers win next week vs MTL--
PROULX is worst official easily, he always screws 1 team good, HE tries to get involved in the game and BE the centre piece- he never lets the players play, he calls fouls on everyone, he makes crucial stupid penalties--
Proulx is defintely fishy- something always weird happens with him- Perhaps something shady?
The bombers only chance this season is to win the BYE and win the division-- A home game in Winnipeg could be the advantage and they can win at home and go to the GREY CUP--
Bombers are starting to lose to bad teams, only good thing is that Bombers dont have to play BC anymore, as that would not be pretty vs this offense--
I hope we can get it on track but its not looking good with the HOOK and 5 yard passing offense-- You need YArds after catches to win-- The patterns are a complete joke and I am not sure who is calling this offense but its not effective--
I really thought with a 2 game lead and owning the tie break over MTl with 1 more win, I thought the Bombers were in the driving seat for the division..
I am hoping we are going to have enough to win the east. The offense just looks really predictable at times and they dont have a deep passing attack.
I am going to be praying for BUCK to be healthy and BRINK--
BRINK is pretty decent, the INT was bad, but I am not sure if he underthrew it to CARR or was it CARR's fault? Either way BRINK has the best ARM on the team--
I like the way he is TALL and can look over the DEFENSE confidently and throw the intermedicate passing routes--
when you have no RB and a #3 QB for a quarter of the game and your #2 QB and #2 RB for the other half, I see no reason for it not to.
And the calls were fine. the Loose Ball Interference, though rare, was definitely a deserved penalty. missed calls here and there? maybe, I didn’t see much. there were holds - probably on both teams - nothing worth getting upset over as questionable missed holds happen ALL THE TIME (not to be confused with “missed holds that the blind could’ve seen” like the one on Willis a few weeks ago).
Like I said, Proulx was really really bad in the Saskatchewan games, but he was fine in this one.
well, I’ll tell you how you could play better on defense. you could start by maybe stopping the RB instead of acting like it’s a surprise the Argos want to run. 8.2 yards per carry against isn’t going to win you many games no matter how well your pass defense plays.
I really like what I saw from Brink. I think as long as he’s healthy we have a chance against the Als’. If Pierce is healthy even better, but Brink is good. He can get it done. The INT was maybe the only mistake he made (and maybe it was Carr’s, but to be honest, Carr was gone if he threw it to him in stride instead of behind him)
.....I don't know why special teams are so lacking on this team...Next to no blocking on returns and when we do have a decent one we're called for the usual holding or clip...We are not prepared...What the hell was Jovon doing running that missed field-goal out of the endzone...Everyone and their dog knows you put people back there that can return the kick and get the bloody thing out...I know Lapo is no Bud Grant but c'mon ...can he think past the end of his nose...Also why was that fan whistle not a penalty to the home team... I recall we were penalized for that type of infraction one year and also for '''noise' from our stadium speakers....
Anyway....this club is snake- bit at the pivot position...Let me see...Elliott,Brink, Pierce, ...all hurt...Geez even our old qb Jyles got nicked tonight....
Unlike bowler i was not happy with the refs....It's no excuse for losing but at least call the game fairly...I think the call on Green for interference on that fumbled kick was b.s....Green was going after a loose football and he in no-way grabbed the returner... He fell in the way of the oppostion player and was called ....wow....we better start seeing flags all over the field and call this game something else...That call was a farce and cost the Bombers a td....
I guess we pick-up the pieces and get ready for the Als.....this should be interesting :lol:
Disagree with bowler on the loose ball penalty on the kick return. You see guys getting creamed all the time on loose balls and much worse that that on muffed kick returns and there is never any call. A call like that is beyond ridiculous. A fumble is a free for all.
QB - Somehow this game feels like deja vu. We lost both Jyles and Brink in the same game late last year and ended up with Elliott starting. Losing 2 QBs in a game in 2 consecutive years? And consider last year we lost Buck, Brink, and Jyles to injury (the top 3) and this year we've had various injuries to the top 3 in Buck, brink, and Elliott this year again. Unbelievable. Brink may be back next game, it looked like it was his non throwing shoulder that was hurting. Buck will probably be off until Wednesday and then TBD if he plays or even dresses. At least it will give Goltz some snaps and maybe the Summers guy on the PR some additional snaps in practice this week. At least we have some depth this year who won't we learning the playbook on the go. As for Brink there were some naysayers back in training camp calling for him to be cut but the couple I went to he looked as good as Elliott IMO. And you can go back to the TC threads, I voiced my opinion back then. His problem last year was throwing with authority and getting the ball to his receivers, he was underthrowing a lot but he looks much more comfortable throwing on the CFL field this season.
RB - Injuries to Reid and Volny. How many times do you lose the top 2 backs in the game, in addition to the top 2 QBs? Both looked like they were on a serious limp and may possibly be out a few games. Garrett is still on the PR I think plus another RB had tweeted last week he was on his way up to Wpg this wknd (Bloi-dei Dorzon, and no that's not misspelled). What I don't understand is after Brown went down with an injury they didn't move Garrett to the active roster to return kicks? He was decent at it at the end of last season, having him on the roster would've been huge.
DL - Doug Brown looks to have injured his shoulder. As much as I like Brown, they've been rotating him a bunch with Kashama and its cost Donny O some playing time this year. I've missed me some Donny O this year and it was nice to see him get in and make some plays there in the 4th Q.
ST - Reynaud needs to continue to work with Dr Bob this week. Another subpar game (under 40 yd avg) and outkicked by Prefontaine. Also gave up a couple big returns late to Owens, one that helped shorten the field for the last argo drive.
Tor - You can't look at this Argo team as the same one from the first 1/2 of the season. jyles is an upgrade over Lemon and they are playing looser, maybe uplifted by not having the Lemon cloud above them. That said I'm still glad we gave up Jyles, even if the player we got in return hasn't done much as of yet. His injured shoulder from last season got dinged again. 3 picks today. He has continued to improve each start since he's been back these last 3 weeks but nothing he has done to this point has made me wished we had kept him around.
11/20 for 88 yards. 1 td and 3 picks is an improvement? i dunno man. i agree with everything else you say…
RENAUD sucks and needs competition 4 weeks ago. heck i can kick a football… seriously.
as for the original post… well, when you lose your first string qb, first string rb, second string qb and second string rb… well, what do u expect? pierce i think will be fine… figure they didnt want to risk further damage to the ribs in a game that was turning ugly… poor reid tho, looked real good tonight… gets hurt… facemasked in the process too… i think pierce will be fine, i think brink will be fine… seperated shoulder lets hope… just pop it back in, goltz who probably gets zero reps with the offense during the week… i dunno, when you lose by 1 with several very iffy questionable, ive never seen a guy get called for going after a fumble ever… i mean what are they supposed to do… the ball bounced… i dunno… the reffing was piss poor tonight and even with our 3 string qb and no running back at the end. prefontaine missed that fg twice… so what if the bombers “stood up” the argos kept playing… should have been a 5 yard delay of game penalty atleast… i dunno. the cfl is good but every year, a few games and not just bomber games, the refs play a major role and tonight was one of those games. bombers backups got beat tonight… playing your backups most games, u expect to be killed… we hung in there and if not for a fumble by edwards and a crappy call by the refs on the endzone fumble,… what? are we supposed to just let the returner pick up the ball and run with it? he touched the ball on the punt… i dont see how going after a fumble is a penalty. ill never understand that. this reminds me of the home game vs mtl last year… we lost 44-41… same refs too. something needs to be done.
Well I was thinking of Jyles as an upgrade over Lemon in that he’s had more exposure and more success in the CFL and that he, in theory, has fewer ?'s surrounding him than Lemon did. However, Jyles has a worse TD/INT ratio and a worse completion percentage and a passer rating about 30 points lower. Granted Jyles is only 3 games returned from a bad shoulder injury, but you’re right, he hasn’t been an improvement, at least not this far.
You do realize on a loose ball every player has the right to go after it, you cannot… I repeat cannot tackle a guy going after a loose ball before he touches that ball then recover the ball yourself and NOT expect a penalty… you do realize this right?
umm yes i realize this ticat fan who always crys when the ticats get "screwed" but for some reason cant see that that was nott a penalty and only thinks the ticats gets the crap calls
if what u are saying is the case, why didnt the argo get an inteference call for hitting beasley who had the first chance at recovering it then ? sorry boy, your logic is off here.. bombers got called on a bullcrap penalty.. argo player did the same thing to a bomber player.. did he tackle owens? maybe but jesus.. owens had no idea where the ball was plus it bounced to the right...
loose balll.. everyone has the right to it.. including deon beasley the bomber player who had the firstt shot at it but got tackled from behind too.. why no call there then ?watch the replay.. its obvious.
this stuff happens every game and never gets called.. either call it all the time or dont at alll.. i guess u sir no more than matt dunigan who called it a great play by green and a very iffy game changing penalty.
when the tsn announcers, both of em say it was a good play and should have been ruled a touchdown.. sorry. even the announcers said it. but ofcourse the ticat troll comes in here and talks crap...
another loss for your boys tomorrow will be nice.
arguing with a ticat fan is like banging your head against a brickwall cuz u no for a friggin fact if that was the ticats who got screwed, you'd be saying the same stuff.
IVE SAID it b4, dont like blaming the refs but when even the announcers say it was a good play.. well geez.
on replay looks to me like green is sliding for the ball as is owens and green "hits" owens who is already sliding on the ground in the legs.. ya hitting the guy who's already down in the legs caused mr fumbles owens who's hands are not the greatest in the first place to not grab the ball that bounced to the right of him. sure. ticat fan logic = only ticats get the crap calls. if u cant see that wasnt a penalty yet 1 or 2 weeks ago were bitching about penalties that do get called all the time... whats the point.
....the call on Green was total bull$hit and everyone knows it....cost us the game...A player is entitled to go after a loose ball in any fashion he can...IF he happens to run into the player who fumbled trying to accomplish that ...so be it...it's a FREE BALL...the returner is not given any more or less entitlement to that ball so therefore NO intererence call should have been made...I think Proulx and his gang blew it and it's a bad mark on the officiating in this league once again......end of :thdn:
Yes, papa, any player is entitled to go after a ball that has been fumbled. . . and yes, if you run into someone who is also trying to get the ball, that as well is okay. … but Green just out and out tackled Owens and was not making any attempt at all to go for the ball. It was a fair call. I’d agree with you if Green was going for the ball and happened to bump into Owens, but that is not what happened. He ignored the ball and tackled, not bumped, Owens.
I agree the call meets the CFL rule book definition of interference and was appropriately called. What I would disagree with was the application rule. They never make that call and there is tons of interference on every fumble. That’s what’s infuriating. And more likely than not it won’t be called again for a while. That call took points off the board that could’ve secured the win, but despite it they were still in a position to win if they played the last 2 minutes better.
re: the call/non call on the whistle on the first FG attempt, the 2008 CFL rule book has the following on the fan interference penalty
Article 2 – Other Than Team Personnel
If a person other than one described in Article 1 should interfere with the play in
progress, the penalty shall be:
(a) If such person interfered to the advantage of the team in possession, that team
shall be penalized for illegal interference at the point where the ball was held when
the interference occurred.
(b) If such person interfered to the advantage of the team not in possession, the
team in possession shall be awarded:
(i) a touchdown score if, in the judgment of the Referee, a touchdown would
have been scored on the play or,
(ii) a penalty of half the distance to the Goal Line from:
1. the point where the ball was held when the interference occurred or,
2. the point where the ball became dead or,
3. the point where the ball was put into play or the team gained possession,
whichever is the greater advantage to the team in possession, plus a series of three
downs regardless of the time remaining in the half.
(c) If such person interferes with the play when the ball is not in possession of
either team, the Referee shall whistle the play dead immediately. The entire play
shall be repeated at the point the ball was previously put into play, with the down,
yardage, score and time remaining the same.
(d) If such person interferes with a forward pass play in the Goal Area, the ball
shall be awarded to:
(i) Team A at the one-yard line if the interference was to the advantage of
Team B or,
(ii) Team B at the 10-yard line if the interference was to the advantage of
Team A.
NOTE: If the non-offending team is awarded a series of three downs with insufficient
time remaining, it shall be permitted a maximum of three plays from scrimmage.
If that team should score or lose possession, the game will be terminated at the
conclusion of that play.
I can only assume that they decided the fan whistle occurred before the play and enforced section c. That was probably the best outcome for the bombers, I'm sad to say, because I doubt they would have decided the whistle was to the Argos benefit and given them a penalty, but more likely they could have decided that the benefit was to the Bombers and the outcome would have been worse under those conditions.
.....what i remember from the play where we were awarded a penalty instead of a td....It looked like to me Green impeded Owens by going after the ball...which he is entitled to do...I guess it could come down to the refs. interpretation and judgement, which in that game was definitely not going to go in the Bombers favour... I have never seen this called before in a game, where players were slamming into each other all over the field trying to recover a punt...I guess because it was a td. for the Bombers that made the difference :lol: Anyway...onward and upward as they say...I just hope we don't get that joke of a reffing crew in the next game or i might have to go along with Lapos type of thinking...' they're probably going to score more points than us anyway sooooooooo :lol:
You can’t have it both ways wolverine. If, as you agree, it was the correct call, then it was the correct call and you can’t complain about it. Certainly there have been somewhat similar incidents in other games that were not called. . . but that changes nothing. As I said in another post, if you get a speeding ticket today, it is not much of a defence to argue that someone else was speeding yesterday and didn’t get a ticket.
I agree he’d be entitled to do that papa. . . but as I see it that is not what he did. . . he tackled Owens. He didn’t just impede him. If he bumped him in going by towards the ball, if he pushed him out of the way, if he tripped him as he went by, then maybe I’d agree with you. But he tackled him, and that’s the key to it all.
But I think the main problem really is something you have accurately stated in some of your other posts papa. . . this game should not have come down to two plays (this endzone play and the last minute FG try by the Argos). The Bombers on paper are a far superior team to Toronto. . . it should not have been so close that two plays affect the outcome. . . you were behind the 8 ball in terms of an insane amount of injuries to skill players, yes, but still, an 8-3 team should be able to put away as 2-9 team and do so by halftime before the injuries began to mount.
I think you are bang on in calling LaPo’s coaching skills into question. It is cause for concern now I agree.
.....you might be right MadJack as i did not review that debacle closely...It does draw into question though where similar circumstances have occurred and players have, in the open field ...knocked down...jumped on....and yes outright tackled trying to recover a fumble...I don't recall too many penalties called in the field of play...If using your hands to push away a returner (not tackling, which i thought Green did ) or landing inadvertently on him is considered a penalty then the refs have missed most of them...Anyway....If Green was seen as tackling on the play, it would be a penalty and not a discretionary call by the official ,that led to the nullifying of the td....It just seems like a first and not a typical call to me :roll:
The bottom line is that the Bombers left points on the field that could have won the game and that they got busted up by the more physical Argonauts. This loss will likely cost us 3 games due to the numerous injuries we suffered in this gridiron battle.
There's nothing "excellent" to admire about being beaten into the turf by the bottom feeders of the CFL.
All five teams that won against Montreal went on to lose their next game. Not sure what the psychological factor is but 0-5 there has to be something there. Emotional drop after beating the GC champs ? fatigue ???
I have never seen this called before in a game, where players were slamming into each other all over the field trying to recover a punt...I guess because it was a td. for the Bombers that made the difference :lol: Anyway...onward and upward as they say...I just hope we don't get that joke of a reffing crew in the next game or i might have to go along with Lapos type of thinking...' they're probably going to score more points than us anyway sooooooooo :lol: