Get over to esksfans.com and see for yourself. Some of the best EE discussion goes on over there.
You also have to look at the bigger picture than the few people you know. I can’t over-emphasize how much of a PR disaster it would be if done too soon.
:roll: I didn't say that I was in touch with [b]all [/b]of the other fans... I intimated that what you've heard may not be a true representative feeling on the matter and that if you start digging you'll see that while a great many people think that a) ET is a good football management guy and b) he deserves a second chance, they also don't think that it would be a good idea for reasons that extend far beyond the football field.
I have it from a pretty good authority that Tillman and Lelachuer(sp?) don't neccesarily see eye to eye, and that Tillman is not even in consideration for the Edmonton job.
And quite frankly I am not sure you want him. He is good at bringing a team that has the talent there already, doing a couple of minor tweaks and then building from a strong base. Edmonton doesn't neccesarily have that strong base anymore. Shivers deserves a tonne of credit for that 07 team, it wasn't all Tillman at all.
The more I read about Shivers the more I like this guy , the only thing is the last time I seen him was a BC place walking on the sidelines he looked like he just got released from the drunk tank , but I suppose we have all had those days , just the image is hard to remove from my mind. :lol: I kinda like W moon but he’s been out of the CFL for so long .
I sometimes wonder if Shivers + Barrett was the problem in Sask. Each on their own seems to be doing fine, but when they were together they seemed to have a penchant for attracting the wrong types of guys to the team. That said, it really was those guys that built the team that Austin had success with and that continues to do well to this day.
As for Moon he’s also been out of football in general way too long. No point bringing in someone who can’t execute the role demanded of him. One of my all time favourite EE players (along with Blake Marshall etc) I just don’t think he can provide the team with what it needs. To me the success of the team is far more important than just having a guy who people admired as a player.
Not like Moon has been completly out of the game , he has some contacts with the Seahawks and is hosting a Football TV show in Seattle . he is also invoved in some buisness venture as well. they interview him time to time on sports talk radio in Vancouver. Didn't he also run a Cookie buisness in Edmonton when he was playing?
I wasn't aware PR new the facts of the Tillman case inside out and was party to the plea bargain he made with the Crown. If weren't for the fact that he is probably wrong about at least one aspect of the case I might even fall for his deceptions.
Shivers caused a lot of problems in the Riders locker room. As I understand it, (and I got this from talking to a couple of players who were there at the time) Shivers and Barrett were very open about the fact that, all other things being even close to equal, the “Brother” would get the job over the “white guy”.
Even if it wasn’t true, and I hope that is wasn’t, it was still the perception among the players. This caused a lot of racial tension and affected the team chemistry.
I may have/may not have mentioned Shivers on here somewhere, if I did I can’t find it. Anyway, NO to Shivers too! To tell you the truth for GM: Neil Lumsden, but on the other hand I don’t know how much experience he would have for the job if hired. It’s anyones guess.
Like I said in my post, I got this from two players who were in the room at that time. I, myself, was not there, and I thought I made that clear. I also said I hoped it wasn’t true.
That being said, both players (both of whom happen to be white, if that matters) believed this to be true. I really wouldn’t have thought much of the comments, but they said it independently of each other, several months apart, and neither appeared to know that the other had said anything.
I’m not going to name the players, as I don’t wish to betray a confidence.
Believe me, or don’t. It doesn’t matter to me. I was just sharing an insight. If you think I’m stirring or trolling, ask Chief to delete my comment.
I wouldn't say you're trolling, and I don't doubt that you spoke to these players, but it might not be the most appropriate thing to be discussing considering you're potentially sullying the names of two men who can't defend themselves.
If you’re talking about me, I can tell you quite easily that the information I mentioned about the case is readily available to the public… heck, you can get most of the info with a simple google search.
Beyond that, I have no idea what you’re going on about.
What I’m talking about PR, is this post you made. You introduce language into the debate that was never introduced in court, as far as I can tell. So unless you have personal inside and thorough knowledge of the case and the law, you’re talking through your hat.
• There was no talk about “sexual abuse”. Do you even know what it is that he supposedly did? It could barely even be considered sexual.
• The court chose the UNOPPOSED BY THE CROWN desire by the defence for an absolute discharge. Do you honestly believe that had Tillman actually done anything but the most minor of acts barely worthy of the charge that the Crown wouldn’t have demanded a conviction and sentence other than absolute discharge?
• The charge doesn’t “remain on his criminal record” because HE HAS NO CRIMINAL RECORD.
• He needs rehab? What are you an expert on criminal behaviour in addition to a legal expert? Funny that the real expert, the judge, saw no need for rehab.
• You compare Eric Tillman to CHARLES MANSON? Based on that alone I wonder who is really in need of rehab.
You know what dude, the fact that you made such erudite responses is the only reason that I’m responding.
You are correct (to the best of my knowledge) about many things… and I stand to be corrected. (In a different thread I do point out about how the minutae of the case, while significant, are NOT the crux of why the Esks can’t/shouldn’t be looking at ET… you can find those yourself. ) But the fact that you completely and totally missed the entire point of my using the Manson reference (i.e. as a demonstration of what “over the top” actually would mean) puts your comments in a poor light. It was PURPOSEFULLY ridiculous to make a point… one you missed by more than a mile.
However… here is what is germane to the REAL point…
We’re both Esks fans here. So let’s not quibble, let’s look to the future and to the betterment of our team. You HAVE to realize what an enormous blunder the Esks would make from both a fans’ point of view and an overall message to the Eskimo community if they were to court ET so soon after “whatever” it was that continues to plague this issue. There is WAYYYY too much confusion and BS and sensitivities on edge for a move towards ET to do any good for the team in the short term. You’ve got to see that.
edit-- if you look at the posts I’ve made on this subject then you would see that there really is only one point that I keep trying to come back to. That point does not say that we need to rehash the details with 100% accuracy, to deny ET a second chance, to say that ET is incapable of performing the task in question. It’s only about what is the right move to make by the Esks’ organization with full consideration of the impact and ramifications of hiring ET to the fans, the sponsors, the advertisers, and the Esks community in general. AFAIC, that is what the BoD and the Pres needs to focus on when looking at candidates (among other more direct requirements).
It is the fact that people don’t seem to get this (or don’t want to) that totally baffles me.
) But the fact that you completely and totally missed the entire point of my using the Manson reference (i.e. as a demonstration of what “over the top” actually would mean) puts your comments in a poor light. It was PURPOSEFULLY ridiculous to make a point… one you missed by more than a mile.