I was in favour of building a 10,000 seater in the 80,s with a design that would allow for removing the roof and expanding upwards to 18,000. I really feel that a 10,000 seater is what this city needed then and its still what this city needs. I cannot believe that after 25 years council is still making the same basic mistake of tying their arena future to the NHL rather than solidifying business they already have. Laying off the ticket sales staff for the Bulldogs in the middle of the Phoenix fiasco is a shining example. If you have no sales staff all offseason how are your revenues supposed to do anything but plunge. Duhhhhh. Todays Bulldogs attendence is skewed by the 14,000 in Montreal after 14 Hamilton home games the attendence is 3928 good for 17th in the league. Not bad considering that every effort by the city has been made to cut costs at the expense of sales costs and doubling the number of midweek games that are known to draw poorly. Not a winning formula. My fear is we won't have ANY hockey tenant for Copps next season
Building Copps helped Hamiltons image, and as stated their have been some big games played there, i cant understand blaming the City for the AHL,s scheduals?? Building a 10,000 seat arena to be added on to later? How could the CITY bid or attract a NHL team with a 10,00 seat arena? ITS the NHL to blame for there only being a MINOR pro team in COPPS_ AHL is distant 3rd when compared to NHL and OHL/J.A hockey
I have a huge issue with the 2 statements I highlighted. Both are completely false
Mass, the schedule the AHL puts out is completely dependent on building availability. The city simply didn’t make the building available more weekends than what is on the schedule. The AHL is not at fault, the city bears 100% responsibility. The AHL is the 2nd best league in the world. Junior hockey is an inferior product even if it enjoys more popularity in this area. As for the city attracting a team in 85, If a brand new building was expandable to 18,000 within the time frame mandated by the NHL’s expansion schedule it and the city had clear plans to do so complete with architectural specs cost analysis etc it would have been just as good as Ottawa and Tampa Bay’s bids. No wait. It would have been infinitely better than those 2 cities that had no money no building no land and no plan
Inferior or not, I get pumped when I go to a Knights in London game packed with 9000 in the JLC where as I have no wanting at all to go to a Bulldogs game, one is an event, the other just a plain hockey game in a building that with 3,000-4000 in a 17,000 +er, makes the experience, well, just not an experience. Mind you, hockey isn't the game for me compared with football as I say. I don't need an experience for the Ticats, for hockey it's a different story.
At this point I agree the city can't do much with Copps except keep it as up to date as possible and hope that a Jim Balsillie without being Jim Balsillie comes around and actually gets the city what they built the arena for, an NHL team, not a Canada Cup few games every 10 years or so, actually is there such a thing as the Canada Cup any more? No idea. The world juniors in Hamilton would be good but I guess with just a tier 2 junior A team, that isn't going to happen.
You must have lots of reasons for saying
the city isn`t in control of the process,
and that the provincial and federal governments
aren`t the major backers of our Pan Am facilities
don`t be too shy to tell me what they are. :?
Please enlighten me, AKT. :oops: 
My take on this, very unscientific BTW, is that the governments are providing a spark, initial funding, for a Pan-Am type facilities for a stadium (who cares about swimming and cycling, those sports will take any upgrades at all and don't need any other backers because there is no pro level higher level) and then from there, it's up to private funding to make it pro CFL, just like BMO with the world junior soccer thing. Very similar. The city IS in control of the basics 15,000 seater which in the long run is more or less useless, basic all the way. But from there on, for a pro stadium, it's the private sector that will be calling the shots. Now, whether this upgrade to a pro type facility with the private sector means the private sector gets to call the shots for location, who the f knows. My guess is the city will have to chip in more if the private sector puts in so much that the location is out of the city's control and yet the city is so desperate to have it at the harbourfront and where the private sector wants it anywhere but the harbourfront. This should be quite interesting I must say how this works out over the next few months or so.
And Bob Young, as much as we love him, is no MLSE. It will take a lot of different factions from the private sector to make this a stadium that is better than BMO even IMHO.
Very simple
The Pam Am committee is in charge of the stadium requirements, therefore they ultimately control the process along with the federal and provincial governments without who the games proposal dies. The fact is the Pan Ams don’t need Hamilton but if Hamilton wants the games they will do as they are told.
The federal and provincial governments are only responsible for 50% of the 15,000 seat stadium funding. The city is responsible for the other 50% PLUS 50% more to upgrade the facility to something usable. That means the feds and province are only responsible for 33% of the finished product. Besides not making a solid business case just because its not a bank loaning the money is immaterial. Any public money being spent needs the same scrutiny, in fact it needs even more scrutiny as far as I’m concerned. I don’t care if a bank loses its investment but I sure as heck care if my tax money is being tossed around on whimsical ideas that have no hope of providing some return on the investment, whether its financial profit or social benefit.
The governments at all levels obviously realize that Hamilton is due some attention, that's is why it was included in the Games proposal, this is how these things are done in Canada. All you are doing is speculating about things you have no control over. If you don't want the stadium for Hamilton that's your opinion, there are already big plans for the west Harbor area and the Stadium plans only enhance the situation.__________ RE Earl_ London has always supported the Knights, London is on an Island 2.5 hrs from Civilization. and the Knights are all they have. A Hamilton NHL team in Copps would sell the same as the Leafs!
Not at all.I want a stadium, I just want it done with a solid business plan in place to fund the expansion before committing to a 15,000 seater that is completely useless. What if they can get no private funding or what if they can only get half of what they need? Then we either get stuck with a monumental bill to upgrade or we get a stadium that is only good for demolition. I really wish you would actually read the post before making silly comments. There is zero speculation involved in any point I've brought up about fiscal responsibility
AKT, If you mean that the Pan Am operating committee will have
ultimate control over the design of the stadium and it`s location
in other words, the final decision-making authority then yes they do,
but the city completed the process of choosing three stadium locations
long before this new Pan Am operating committee was formed
and likely the design of the stadium and its business plan will be chosen from what the citys consultants put together.
Earl_ London has always supported the Knights, London is on an Island 2.5 hrs from Civilization. and the Knights are all they have. A Hamilton NHL team in Copps would sell the same as the Leafs!
That is quite funny Mass, I will have to mention this to my family in London that they aren't quite in the civilized world. 
But point made, yes, it is easier for them to know who they are compared with say Hamilton with us being so close to Toronto and larger than London it's more natural to think we are more or less like Toronto.
Saying a Hamilton NHL team would sell the same as the Leafs is like someone saying Toronto could support an NFL team. Hamilton and close to a half dozen or so other cities in Canada that don't have an NHL team could draw 17,000 every night at higher prices than what the Coyotes charge for tickets with an NHL arena and team. Likewise, every CFL city and others maybe could support an NFL team at 65,000 per game if it came down to it, again with a stadium in place and an NFL team in place. Every city wants to be in the big 4 truth be known, that is no secret.
Look, Hamilton went for the gusto and built an arena and yes, got smacked in the face by the NHL, Hamilton and Ron Joyce, crap happens. There is no way Hamilton builds Copps as it is without thinking that they would have an NHL team either back then or in the next few years after, you'd have to agree with that I think. But I really think Hamilton should have made sure they had a team, the motto build it and they will come is a bit dicey. Just like building a football stadium here without a well thought out business plan that puts a strong emphasis on the location of the stadium and financial backers to make it a worthy home for the TiCats.
well maybe you did not here of the reports that Bob Young will put in 50,million to increase the seating capacity! The City has plans for the west Harbor in place, with the biggest issue being traffic considerations for the area, And these issues are not even apart of the stadium funding, It is a shame that Copps has not had an NHL tenant, as it was intended to have, but that’s the NHL,s stupidity, not Hamilton,s . The only issue imo with the pan am stadium is weather there will be a track, because fans used to Ivor Wynn want to be close to the action, but if there is a track so be it IMHO.
After a the first few games the out of towners will pass coming to TiCats games since I think traffic will be horrendous getting out of the city onto the 403. Just my opinion. If it's at the harbourfront without some major highway into the area.
First of all Bob Young has never said he would put in $50M. Second IF he was willing to spend that kind of money he'd want a stadium that he approves of in a location he approves of before he's commit. Since we know neither the location or the design I'd have to say that any statement that Bob Young is going to invest $50M is pure speculation on your part. Copps has nothing to do with the discussion at hand even if it was Hamilton's stupidity because they built an arena without a tenant. Why do you keep bringing it up anyway? So you don't think the location and the funding are an issue? You'll never get my vote for public office
re Earl wrote- "But point made, yes, it is easier for them to know who they are compared with say Hamilton with us being so close to Toronto and larger than London it's more natural to think we are more or less like Toronto.
Saying a Hamilton NHL team would sell the same as the Leafs is like someone saying Toronto could support an NFL team. Hamilton and close to a half dozen or so other cities in Canada that don't have an NHL team could draw 17,000 every night at higher prices than what the Coyotes charge for tickets with an NHL arena and team. Likewise, every CFL city and others maybe could support an NFL team at 65,000 per game if it came down to it, again with a stadium in place and an NFL team in place.
Look, Hamilton went for the gusto and built and arena and yes, got smacked in the face by the NHL, Hamilton and Ron Joyce, crap happens. But I really think Hamilton should have made sure they had a team, the motto build it and they will come is a bit dicey. Just like building a football stadium here without a well thought out business plan that puts a strong emphasis on the location of the stadium and financial backers to make it a worthy home for the TiCats." I basically can not agree with any of your comparisons, Hamilton has its own identity! London IS on an island, with a lifeline called the 401! Ive lived there. :oops: No nfl team would sell more than any current CFL team accept for Toronto maybe . second guessing former Mayor Morrow 25 years after the fact is ridiculous. Every Olympics(Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver,) every common wealth games(Hamilton 1930,s,Edmonton) and now the Pan Am Games are Opportunities for Cities to get the Facilities they Need, why do you not want Hamilton included this time? because the bid is aproved and Hamilton getting this building is a part of the bid.
I'm not going to argue about comparisons or whatever, it's just funky talk anyways.
Hey, I WANT Hamilton to get a new football stadium for pete sakes! I want to show my folks in London look what we have in Hamilton! I love the CFL and the TiCats! The CFL is my favourite league and the Grey Cup is my favourite championship. What I want though is it to be the best it can in the best location it can for the TiCats and I think a business plan helps everyone with this. Just because I want a business plan doesn't mean I don't want a stadium if that is what you think I'm thinking. :?
Thats exactly what I’ve been saying all along.
Im refering to reports in the media and on this site regarding Mr Youngs intention to help the City of Hamilton, to aquire a modern football field, If you want you can look it up yourself.
And it wouldn't add much transition cost if the Ticats and private-sector partners come up with $50 million to double capacity. ...
City council asked Ticat owner Bob Young and the private sector to find the $50 million.
Young declined to comment on the $25-million corporate interest.
From The Spec - http://www.thespec.com/article/574571