Ending the NFL in Toronto MYTH

Thanks Rhymes for providing some sanity. I too was at that game and you are quite correct the announced attendance was 45,000. Also the notion that there was 9-10,000 fans total in the stands is absolutely ridiculous. :roll: Also, of note that pre-season NFL game OUTDREW THE GREY CUP that was held in the same venue the following season. So, a little perspective is needed here. :wink:

The NFL game outdrew the Grey Cup the following season?
Where's your numbers?
What year are we talking about?

And how do you prove the NFL game actually sold all those tickets?
Even at face value?
Because after listening to Rogers boast about Bills ticket sales all these years, then hearing they sold only 29,000 tickets for the last game, I don't beleive anything when it comes to NFL ticket sales in Canada.

And which game made more money?
Braley probaly made ten times on the Grey Cup then he supposedly did in the NFL game.

I can't speak to profits, although Mr. Wirtanen claims in his book that Braley made $200K profit on the Bud Bowl and I can't see the Grey Cup making less. But what EastVanMark is alluding to is attendance.

I was going to make the point earlier having been at the 1998 Bud Bowl AND the 1999 Grey Cup (Calgary vs Hamilton), that attendance looked very similar. I just looked it up.

87th Grey Cup - 45,118
1998 Bud Bowl - 45,202

I can't say one was more heavily papered than the other with "freebies," but I do know the Lions were struggling at the gate at the time and the CFL/Grey Cup were a tough sell. I would not be surprised if there were some heavily discounted Grey Cup tickets back then.

1. NFL does not allow corporate ownership. Rogers cannot buy a team. You would need one of Canada's billionaires to buy an NFL team and move it to Toronto.
If Rogers is dumb enough to think they can pull this whole thing off (going against all the wisdom in this thread) then maybe they're dumb enough not to know this rule :D

Braley made a bushel full of cash on this years Grey Cup.
I;m sure he probably made more then 200,000 on the 1999 Grey Cup

Yes reported at a conservative $6M, probably more though.

Hell, so would I!

I would like to see that every year, and have so for the last 20.

Hopefully The Bills kill the Toronto deal with the renovation to RWS.

The real shame is this.... I have to go all the way to Buffalo to see a decent Baseball game...Go Bisons....That`s what I say to the Blue Jay Fans that bash the Argos/CFL

Thanks. There are some many reasons it helps to add to the other reasons. :thup:

I don't believe that was the actual PAID attendance for the BUD BOWL?
Where the GREY CUP tickets much more expensive?

I wasn't there but it sure looked more than half empty on T.V.
I don't believe ANY of their announced tickets sales after all the NFL games played in T.O.
The Toronto media used to print stories of sell outs even before tickets even went on sale to the public. :roll: :thdn:

The NFL has an image to maintain. :roll:

That is great news. How do you know that.? THANKS!


                       59,478  <!-- s:rockin: -->:rockin:<!-- s:rockin: -->     <!-- s:rockin: -->:rockin:<!-- s:rockin: -->  <!-- s:cowboy: -->:cowboy:<!-- s:cowboy: -->

I don't believe that was the actual PAID attendance for the BUD BOWL?
The attendance for the 1987 GREY CUP in B.C. was ............59,478 not 45,118

Sorry , you were right about the 87th GREY CUP attendance :oops: :thup:

1987 GREY CUP at B.C. PLACE = 59,478 :rockin:

The 87TH GREY CUP at B.C. PLACE = 45,000+

However , the NFL attendance [if true] was just for 1 game only. How many more thousands paid to see games at B.C. Place ALL season long? :rockin:

Looking in from the outside and reading all these reports on Toronto and enjoying the bashing also because a lot of the comments are funny, I would not put these hi-jinks by the NFL in Toronto past it for sure.

More fans are catching on what towns are not really serious about the team but rather have all that phoney homer and fake hype. Often this is with fair-weather fans, bo-jacks, and/or homers in big small towns like Tampa Bay, St. Louis, Jacksonville, Arizona, and Indianapolis, but we see it's even the case in big Toronto and Vancouver from all these reports.

Down here in Florida the NFL also manipulates attendance especially for nationally-televised games as take place on Thursday night, Saturday, Sunday night, or Monday night. The other games on Sunday usually are blacked out locally, which of course is irrelevant any more because then everyone just hits their PCs to watch for free including often in HD as well nowadays.

I am confident the NFL manipulated the attendance and ticket sales not only for a Saturday night game against the Cowboys in December for Tampa Bay for which it was admitted soon after the game, but also for a Monday Night Football game against the woeful Colts earlier in the season that went well into the 4th quarter because both teams really sucked.

The ugly truth for the NFL in Florida with its three teams is that in the months of September and October, given very comfortable home viewing options or even at the beach, any sports team playing outdoors much of the year (or locally the baseball team the Rays playing indoors at a terrible location that is a pain in the butt to reach for most living in the area) in Florida is going to have a hard time selling out because it is that miserable to just plain be outside after about 11AM from sometime in late April all the way into much of October or even November.

Also an ugly unintended consequence of the obsolete blackout rule for local broadcasts of games not sold out is that some fans discovered just how comfortable it was not to go to the game by just watching part of the game not on TV via a PC and then of course even part of games via the mobile options. Guess what? Many of those same especially younger fans who would not have known the difference and who would have looked more forward to attending an actual game on any other given day when it was not on TV consider now also getting together with friends using the internet option. You won't hear any of that reported on TV, on radio, or in print of course, but the word is well out and any efforts by the NFL to stop it have only been overcome quickly.

For NFL football on a Sunday in Florida, especially if the game is moved to the later start time, fans won't go pay all that money to be miserable during September and October. By November, either the team is winning and hot or it is not, in which case basically the fans are fair weather for the team. This year for the Tampa Bay Bucs I doubt there was even one real sell-out in which the fans actually packed the stadium.

In the 1990s, in Florida they discovered that the MLS was a lost cause after attempting it in two cities here in Florida. Miami is just plain a terrible sports town for ALL teams, and Jacksonville has only the NFL as a top pro team. Miami is so bad they could not even sell out games to the NBA Finals last season. Orlando can't even do it during the regular season too, but then again so cannot most of the NBA.

The only exception in all of Florida for football other than all those fair-weather fans in November for the NFL or for the University of Miami seems to be for the University of Florida and for Florida State who always sell out. They do not have all their home games at the early start on Saturday with often a night game too.

THANK YOU for your insight. :thup:

THANK YOU. There are a lot of great posts here. :rockin:

I am hoping a new ARGO coach and RAY will help but we need a new O. line and people who can catch. :thup:

Regardless , I can't wait for the 100th GREY CUP , in TO. :thup:

End of story for a long time if this reno goes ahead. Rogers will look stupid if this goes ahead and they renew the Bills series:

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