This is Forde's analysis on Eric Tillman and the Joseph trade..http://www.tsn.ca/tsn_talent/columnists/duane_forde/
I find it interesting he compares the trade to the Mats Sundin - Wendell Clark trade. What he failed to mention the Mat Sundin was a young start at the time. In fact Mat, has come close to matching the output of his third season with the nordiques. But then I guess that is not important. When you attempt to protect a gm.
His Kerry Joseph will become the face of the boatman is just foolish. If what Tillman says is true, Kerry will be gone in two or three years. Pinball took years to become the face of the organization.
I find the comment about the 4 veterans, would have needed to be cut as foolish coming out of his mouth as it did Tillmans. Very simply, they cut Holmes and his $160K, they traded Perry and his $100K, and finally they let both Jones and Hunt go without offering a legitmate contract or no offer at all. If Tillman had worked out the deal with Joseph before January, it would have been a mute issue.
He fails to mention the large number of players who sat all season long on the paper cut patrol. It is unfortunate, that he didn't look at it critically.
I agree Mike it is sort of sugar coated. If four more players would be requied to be let go how much over were the riders to begin with. Thats another story we have to wait for the ending to be published by the CFL’s audit. but it sure makes one wonder though.
No time at the moment, but later, I'll go through his points, one at a time, and explain why, for the most part, he is out to lunch.
I like Duane, but sheesh....
I'm going to bet around 50,000 or so.
That horse is dead, 05. But keep whipping it....
All this says to me is, wtf ?
The Riders, supposedly, were in such a pickle last season because of all the injuries. So how, with the cap increasing and the odds of that many injuries again this year being very slim, trimming 1/2 dozen or more vet salaries, still put them in an SMS bind ?
Something is definitely rotten in Denmark, and it's really starting to reek.
How long has he been with the media?(Forde)
Already he knows everything! :roll:
One of two things...
Tillman lied when he said he cut 800k from Roy's payroll...
Tillman lied to the fans about why he traded Josephy.
Personaly I think he lied both times.
We will find out in April. If he cut 800k from Roy's payroll (meaning it was at 4.9million) He should have finished the year at 4.1 million.
Prior to joining TSN, Forde worked for seven years as a game and studio analyst for CFL and CIS Football telecasts on both The Score and Rogers Sportsnet.
You can’t start cruching the numbers until you’ve got all of them. I suspect that included in the 4 vets is a recent signing Omaar Morgan who we’d have had no shot at had we paid Kerry. That said, maybe there are a couple more signings upcoming. Just keep ur pants on for now.
Thats fine but being an analyst does not give him any insider info.....
Its typical MEDAI HORSE HOCKEY!
Here is the part that some seem to be missing, for whatever reason. Did KJ deserve a raise? Yes. Now, what about the 45 other contributors to that championship run? They don't deserve a raise of some type? If you give them an average of 5K each that means you need an extra 225K to pay for them all. Now, the Riders are over by at least 50K, and some believe that number to be even higher. So, if the Riders are over by 335K as some allege, cutting those salaries of some vets gets them to last year's cap number. In order to give KJ that raise, more cuts will be needed. You do have an extra 150K for this year's cap to play with, but then what do you do? Tillman decided to trade Joesph and his 250K, for two guys who total salaries might be around 150K. That leaves 100K, and most of that is used to sign Omarr Morgan. The other 150K could have been used to give Joseph his raise, but then you might lose players elsewhere to upgrade if you keep the same team together, which according to Tillman, was NOT an option.
So the trade, as it stands now looks like this:
Kerry Joseph to Toronto
Don Janaury, Ronald Flemons to SK and Omarr Morgan.
I said when the trade was made that Tillman should have held out for a DB. Seems we did get that DB in Morgan.
As I so eloquently put 10 minutes before you but because you didn't read you just gave the same lil' story.
I didnt see your post until after I submitted my post, PAL.
PS- its was 5 minutes , not 10.
It is interesting…Tillman now has become a mind reader…oh wait maybe he has tele-kinetic powers where he was able to suggest to Danny M. to cut Omarr Morgan. Come off the oh…this or that is result of the Joseph cut. He picked him up as a free agent because Edmonton wasn’t prepared to pay Morgan his current contract.
Now onto the the supposed $800K cut in salary Tillman has brought to the promise land. That has nothing not a single thing to do with the Joseph trade. In fact it had nothing to do with the season. The riders started the season with what they believed were the players and the contracts that would have kept them under the $4.05M SMS cap. Or are these defenders of Tillman now saying that he didn’t start in that position. Bottom line the the only rational the cut of salaries between 2006 and 2007 has is in the starting position.
The thing is I never mentioned the 800K cut in salary.. you did. All I am stating is that if you give Joseph the extra 150K raise he was seeking, you have to give raises to other 45 guys as well. At the very LEAST that costs you 225K. So how do you get that extra money? I will be very interested in how you come up with that extra cash. Yes , we could have traded Crandell for just a draft pick, but you still have to come up with extra $$ to give raises. You think we are over by by an $385K and not 50K, so either way, vets had to go for smaller salaries. No matter which way you slice it, the Riders had to let popular vets go.
I'm with Sambo on this. If Joseph deserves a 50% raise, what about Fantuz, Cates, Adams and Flick. All those guys far exceeded expectations and deserve the same % increase as Joseph. Easy to say give Joseph $125,000 more. A lot tougher to do that and then tell the other guys "by the way we have nothing left for you now."
Actually sambo42 you are so far off the mark here it is not even funny. First I never said you mentioned the $800K, some else did.
Secondly, players are paid by contract. They have bonuses, other incentives and including built in wage increases. Just because Joseph asked to have his contract renogiated based on discussions that Tillman even admitted during the season does not mean all the players should automatically get a raise. What world do you live in where a player asks for a better deal that every other player is automatically inline for the same thing. Using that argument there should have been 41 other players that took a 35% cut last year. Boy would that have made a big difference to the bottom line.
I'm off the mark? I said that if you give the other 45 guys raises of 5K each, that is 225K in extra salary. I don't think that all the players will get raises, but how would you feel if your boss only gave raises to certain individuals? I know it would not make me happy, wether I'm under contract or given a straight wage.
Anyway, we can only speculate here, because we don't have the numbers in front of us. Again, if we are over by $435K as you claim, where do you find the money to give Joseph the raise he seeks? I would love to hear how you come up with the money to pay KJ 400K and not cut players.