Demographics, demographics, demographics

Exactly. Why anyone thinks an urban football stadium will cure the downtown social problems is baffling. It would end up being the perfect compliment to Copps Coliseum.

If you build residential and commercial (per original City plans) then they're already there. Pro downtown advocates keep saying you have to get more people living downtown, WH seems like a good place to start.

A facility like a rec/community centre would be used by a wider variety of people already living in the area.

An amphitheatre would be a draw like some events now are at Bayfront but would provide a better venue for music, theatre, ethnic shows and festivals, etc rather than setting up on the grass at Bayfront or constructing temporary stages. Plus it's slightly less land locked than Bayfront (for those who experience July 1st fireworks).

The "foregone tax revenues and development charges" is largely bogus and a wash. Commercial development at or around WH (other than the stadium) would also general said money.

Depending on what the final stadium site would have been, surrounding development would equally be taxed and charged.

On a side note... Were you not the one that had a list of the TiCats ten sites?

Did you end up posting it as requested as I've lost track of where that post was located.

I'm sure some or many of those sites would have provided that so-called lost development fees/taxes, if any of them would have been seriously considered and studied.

IIRC, the City supposedly rejected many suggested sites because they were potential future employment lands.

Besides the largely empty Red Hill Industrial Park and lands surrounding the airport, how much employment land does the City need for the future??? Surely not all 8, 9 or 10 suggested TiCat sites?

Funny how that worked out...

Its the way its been done and along comes this opportunity to start the healing and we want to add another piece to the fricken fortress.

To me this is why Longwood is ideal, it would open the door to me you and every Ma and Pa that wants to do business in THEIR home town sucessfully. The City PR department simply expands the boundries of what is perceived to be downtown by erecting a large welcome sign where the 403 exits into downtown (Main and the 403).

Longwood becomes an urban stadium and helps the downtown and at the same time makes us appear to be a bigger more productive place. SIMPLE !!!!

Agreed......I was down there the other day and the amount of wasted drunks drinking straight out of Sherry bottles accosting people in front of Jackson Square is shocking !!

I dare anyone to stand there for 10 minutes and experience this disgusting display by these alcoholic pigs.........g,head, I dare you

Hey! I like sherry!

Atleast they did hit you with the Empty Bottle ..
One my Oldest Friends she lives downtown
She is In subsided a Apt with wheel chair access
she was hit with a Bottle when said no to giving them money.
It Cause Damage to her Scooter .

Was BY agreeing to contribute $7M toward an amphitheatre/fitness centre at WH, or was he offering to do that only IF the city spent $100M to build him a stadium and 100 acre parking lot? What he offered wasn't the problem - it's what he wanted in return that was the problem.

If I offer you $700, will you give me $10,000 in return? Sounds like a great deal - for me! Not so great for you - I'd walk away from that deal if I was you, and so would you.

Section, pretty much. The majority of that money, was FROM the future fund. (the money used to build the secondary items on WH). In other words "Earmark 7 million of the FF for WH development".

Don't get me wrong, it is a good idea for sure, but its not exactly "giving" is it. None the less, good suggestion.

RE: sites - here's what I can remember. There was nothing that remarkable, frankly. Almost all have been discussed publicly. These are not ranked in any order. Last three are pretty vague, I don't have more details.

Confederation Park
Kay Drage Park
LaFarge slag site
403 & Aberdeen
downtown, near Copps
Centennial Pkwy
Fruitland Rd

Reminds me of a greatest hits album by a guy named Steve Goodman - "No Big Surprise"
Here is a gem from it (almost off-topic except for the fact that it is being perfomed on Waveland Avenue overlooking Wrigley):

Thanks red24.

As you say, most, if not all, have been mentioned or rumoured but it's good to see an actual list.

I wish Chedoke Golf Course would have been included as IMO it can afford to lose 1 (west-most) of the two 18 hole courses.

But then, I don't play golf and there seems to be plenty of other courses in the area. I'm not sure if Chedoke makes money or is heavily subsidized but anytime I walk the rail trail next to the course I usually see more squirrels than golfers.

It would seem to include many of the features the TiCats need or want for success (highway nearby for access and visibility, space for some parking, rail line nearby and not too far from the wished for LRT on King St).

May I ask you where you got the list of sites from?

List came from the team. 8 of them I knew, the last 2 were surprises, but they're also the least detailed.

Niagara Escarpment Commission would have been a major hurdle to putting it on the golf course. Maybe you would succeed with that, but it's a big wildcard. Look what they did to Burlington's soccer stadium in New City Park. Forced them to reduce it in size by half because the sensitivity of the area could not support so many people during the games (according to NEC).

I thought Bob Young said that EM wasn't one of his ten choices?

Don't ask me, that's what I was told when I asked what the other 9 sites were (other than WH) that their 'experts' deemed superior to WH.

brantford is tearing down their downtown and starting fresh. they have a new city-centre and it is busy.

Well I have to ask you because you're presenting the information. And maybe I am reading this wrong, but you seem defensive. I'm just curious as how your list that you say the team gave you could have a site on there that the owner said he never looked at until after facilitation. Then again, maybe this list you say you were given was the post-facilitation list. I was just trying to clarify some inaccuracies that I see. if you don't know, you don't know.

Honestly, not trying to be a contrarian here, but I seem to recall Mitchell saying something like that they had looked at it but it wasn't a top choice.

You could be right, but I remember Bob Young saying somewhere (he did so many interviews during one stretch that one interview flows into the other) that the EM site was not one of his ten choices. There has been so much information going back and forth that it's a chore just to keep up with it all, no less try and remember when and where you heard/read it.

Yes Demographics are very important. However, Hamilton should consider a European city model. Take Prague for instance, I spent several weeks in the city core. Prague has a unique idea, remove all the vehicles and provide LTR to the city core. Thousands of people walking around daily - shopping, eating and drinking at the street side cafes. A huge city square that holds events. The soccer stadium is no where near downtown. The only way Hamilton will clean up the WH is demolish everything north of York/Wilson to Sherman Ave. People will not visit or even consider living downtown until all that mess is removed. Build condos - become business friendly - remove the cars and create LTR. Calgary has a fairly large section downtown where cars are prohibited. I was surprised how many people were also walking around - shopping and eating at road side cafes. The current state of run down buildings, head shops, flop houses, peep shows, bums /vagrants do absolutely nothing to attract a higher class of people who can afford the condos downtown. The city wants to make the downtown attractive - remove the trash and purchase a huge wrecking ball. The city thinks people will come downtown becuase they have more cops walking the beat. Wrong - remove the social rejects and things will change.