Cut Troy Smith!!!!

[i]Johnny has seen enough! This game made Johnny barf up his cannelonis!!!! Troy Smith is not a pro quarterback.

Smith cannot read a defense. Cannot find the open receiver. Cannot get rid of the ball quickly. Has no accuracy, no touch and bad timing. He throws bullets for short passes that receivers can't catch. He has no pocket presence and hangs on to the ball way too long. He scrambles like a headless chicken to try and make something happen, but runs backwards and loses
yards. All he has is a cannon for an arm. He actually made Ted White look good tonight!/i]

Sure, there are many problems with the Als offense besides Smith. Higgins and Dinwiddie for sure! And why the puck are they playing Ocho Klinko Johnson and Stala?!

But, Smith has shown what he is; a college star who played in a system that made him look good. He was exposed against the Florida Gators SEC defense in the championship game in 2006. He is showing that lack of ability in the pros every snap! Smith is not the future, he is not the present. Give Marsh the job. See what he has. If he shows progress, take the time to develop him. If he fails to progress like Smith, go to the next guy.

Don't waste any more time with Smith. Cut him before the 10th game so his salary isn't guaranteed. Give the job to Marsh and let him develop.

CUT TROY SMITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Almost makes you wish calvillo was still tossing the pigskin

Heck with that, last night almost made me wish for Ted White.

I'm not quite ready to second Johnny's opinion ... yet. As I said in the game thread, if we're still seeing this nonsense from Smith by game 7, then I think you have to cut him and start looking at replacements. Struggles are normal for a new QB but what happened in preseason game 2, regular season game 1, and regular season game 4 is flat-out incompetence. You can't blame that on being a rookie. And the man is almost 30 years old. I hate to harp on it but it's not insignificant. Not only does it become hard to make excuses for a man, not a boy, but it makes you wonder why it's even worth it to sink years of development into a guy who would, at best, only have a five-year career in the league as a starter.

[i]Pierre Vercheval mentions something interesting in his RDS column:

[url=] ... -1.1322903[/url][/i]

"J’en conviens, aucun quart n’est parfait en termes de précision ou de prise de décisions. Au-delà de ça, ce sont d’autres bévues qui tôt ou tard dérangent et mènent à la remise en question suivante : « Prend-t-il tout ça au sérieux? Est-il préparé? Connaît-il bien le livre de jeux? Met-il véritablement les efforts afin de faire tourner le vent de côté? »"

[i]Now Pierre attends Als, practices, and he is a straight shooter. He is not one to pull things out of his a$$. So if he is asking out loud if Smith puts in the work and is serious... Maybe John Bowman can enlighten us :smiley:

A few other things Johnny don't like about his play. He locks his stare on his intended receiver the whole route! The defenders know where the ball is going. He also doesn't seem to be able to "look off" the defenders. You know, look left, and throw right.
He has yet to pump fake. He has also not (has he even tried) managed to draw the defense offsides with a change of cadence in his calls. You could count on Calvillo turning a 1 and 10 into a 1 and 5 once, sometimes twice a game with this trick. Calvillo would also fake the hike to make the defense move, so he could gather information on their scheme. Guess it's too complicated for Troy :roll:

Maybe it will take him another 4 weeks just to know which side to turn when handing the ball off to the running back :thdn: [/i]

Well we don't know. He did show up to camp much leaner than he did last season. Which says something, not everything but something. He liked working with Worman. Now that was all thrown out and we started again and we simplified, modified, simplified modified....One this is for sure he looked MUCH better last season than he did this year so what changed ???

Locking in on his receivers is a big issue and has been a big "tell" for opposing defenses. Not running with the ball is another problem and refusing to attack the whole field is another. He hasn't been here a year yet and he's on his fourth OC ! There are all kinds of problems here and they aren't all Troy's.

[i]Do the Als have the “butt fumble” in their playbook? The way Troy Smith is playing, Johnny would not be surprised to see him execute this “great” quarterback maneuver:


Only his third OC, actually. :slight_smile: By the time he joined us last year, Hawkins was history and Berry was in charge. And if the early-season reports from this year were to be believed, the playbook had mostly been designed by Dinwiddie and the other coaches before Worman was even hired. So it shouldn't be such a gargantuan transition.

In any case, we're not talking about adapting to specific plays, schemes, or formations. We're talking about Smith not being able to execute at a fundamental level. As you say, he looked a lot better last year so what gives? My feeling is that we need to bring a dedicated QB coach on board (Calvillo?) to spend lots of time coaching up the QBs on fundamentals. Marsh's game has also gone in the toilet since last year, which doesn't reflect well on Dinwiddie trying to do both jobs (QB coach and OC)...

But how do we know that? He's hardly played this year save for some useless mop up time in Vancouver. I'd have at least given him the full second half in that one, have no idea what Higgins was thinking letting Smith stay in there and continue to stink the joint out and not yanking him until half way through the fourth quarter. Marsh only threw 9 passes so that's too small a sample to say his game has gone into the toilet. And I wouldn't base much if anything on the preseason.

BC was giving him a 10 yard cushion and he could only complete 3 of 9 attempts. If you can't even gain a first down in mop up time how can the team have confidence that he can be a starter. If this team starts playing musical chair at the QB position, it will take another step back and it could all unravel a la Winnipeg.

Actually, I do count the preseason, not for wins and losses, but for assessing individual performance. Marsh played most of the second half in the second preseason game and he looked awful. Same issues as Smith -- no accuracy, poor mechanics, couldn't complete any passes to the flats. And that was against Ottawa's second and third-stringers. The fact that both Marsh and Smith look poor in similar ways tells me that coaching is an issue...

Valid point, but then was he not playing with second and third stringers as well as playing against second and third stringers? That could factor into it as well.

Yes, I think you are correct on that.

True, but let's face it, his completion ratio of 33.33%, while dreadful, beats Smith's of 29.4%. And he was playing in the last half of the 4th quarter, when let's face it, our team had given up totally.

They can't. With our lineup and coaching (or lack thereof), we can't have 'confidence' in anyone just now. But Smith was terribly abysmal in the first half. . . so Marsh should have been put in to start the second half which would at least give us a full half of football to see what he's got. It may turn out to be no better than Smith. . .but could it possibly have been worse?

I don't necessarily disagree with that; we may very well turn out to be just like Winnipeg last year; that is clearly the direction in which we are headed. But, if you keep Smith in the game when he is playing worse than Ted White, keeping him in there just to avoid musical chairs seems to me to be insane.

You don't (or you shouldn't) reward failure. There must be, as Hervey famously said last season, "consequences." Smith stunk the joint out last week. You don't reward that by letting him start the next game. Let Smith know that his performance was totally unacceptable and let him watch for at least the first half. I would start Marsh; if he falters, then put Smith back in (or Brink), but do it by the half, don't wait until it's half way through the 4th by which time it's all over anyway.

I know d&p is on record as saying start Smith one more time (at least). I wouldn't for reasons aforesaid; but if we do start Smith, if he is as bad or close to as bad as the BC game, then he's got to be yanked at half time and no later.

I just think that they need to leave Smith in there until they are certain he can't do the job. At that point you release him. Once they go in another direction it has to be for good. I'd like to see a proper OC in place for a couple months before they start cutting quarterbacks... Problem no one is interested or available.

Agreed, but to me one more performance like last game and they should/will be certain that he can't do the job. One more stinker like that and you cut him and start afresh with Marsh, Crompton, and the rest. But yes, having a real OC in place would be great (and sadly a pipe dream at this point).

If I were you fellas, I'd wait and see how the Als stack up against the Ontario teams, before I yank the rug out from under the 2014 campaign altogether.

All you gotta do is be better than the Argos, TiCats, and RedBlacks, and you'll have a shot at the Gray Cup. 8)


But, if you keep Smith in the game when he is playing worse than Ted White, keeping him in there just to avoid musical chairs seems to me to be insane.
Agreed. As long as the team thinks Smith can eventually do better, it makes sense to keep him in games, but if he messes the bed again, then there is no point to keeping him in the game.
I know d&p is on record as saying start Smith one more time (at least). I wouldn't for reasons aforesaid; but if we do start Smith, if he is as bad or close to as bad as the BC game, then he's got to be yanked at half time and no later.
If he starts and has the same kind of bad performance as he did in BC, yes, you yank him at half and put in Marsh. But you [i]also[/i] cut Smith the next day, because by then you [i]know[/i] that he can't do the job and so there is no point wasting a roster spot on him. Cut Smith, make Brink the no. 2, and start grooming Crompton for more responsibilities.

I sincerely hope that Smith realizes that he's down to his last strike. Even Higgins didn't give him any kind of positive endorsement following the BC debacle. He doesn't have to go out and impersonate Ricky Ray next game, but he absolutely cannot mess the bed again. So he needs 150-200 yards passing, a completion percentage above 55%, 1 passing TD, 1 or fewer turnovers, and NO errors with his fundamentals (taking snaps, making easy throws, etc.). If he can't make those very modest benchmarks, he has no future in this league and we should release him outright.