Cut the Fans?

The recent posts form this week are entertaning to say the least...cut this guy, trade this guy etc etc.

This morning on the Fan in Calgary Duane Forde was a guest. He talked about being a visiting team member and playing at Ivor Wynne and how hard it was with the fans so close, and giving it to visitors the whole game. He likened it to being in a jail full of criminals for 3 hours.

Then he went on to say that when he played for the Ti-cats to finish his career (in which I remember we payed top bucks for him, and he $ucked...and then he got injured).....that it was worse being a Ti-Cat than a visitor. The fans were so mean, insulting, vulgar and disrespectful to their own team that he would have preferred to be on the visiting side instead of being a Ti-Cat.

Maybe the forbidden chant isn't so bad, or at the root of all evil in the Hammer?

now i feel bad for booing stripes. on another note how close are the fans at other stadiums?

I'm forced to concur.

If you ever get the chance to have a private conversation with a current or former Tiger-Cat, ask them precisely what kind of derogatory things they hear from some of their own "fans" when times are tough. The vast majority of them will be Canadian Charter violations. On a related note, and to the shame of Hamilton, anecdotes about racial taunts from fans at Ivor Wynne feature all too often as cautionary tales in Pinball's motivational speeches.

No wonder Jason Maas rents his garb and Oz flips us the double-bird (that one was my favourite).

Unfortunately, too many people have this bizarre idea that vile behaviour is what being a TiCat fan is all about. Luckily, the vast majority has more maturity.

I've attended a number of games at IWS now and sat all around the stadium. Fo what it's worth, I can honestly say that I have never heard anything really offensive being yelled at the players/coaches of either side. No racial slurs, slanderous shouts, etc. Lots of criticisms and good natured cat-calling but nothing truly offensive.

Maybe I've just been lucky so far (touch wood).

An Argo-Cat fan

I haven't sat in box J during the Maas era, but I recall a fan there that used to constantly ride Danny Mac.

The comments weren't necessarily vulgar, but they were things like "you suck" and "you're a bum" ...etc. etc.

He was eventually told to shut up by other fans.

I don't think things spoken at IWS are any worse than anywhere else, it's just that the players are so close to the stands that they can hear them.

Well, All and all as long as there are no racial slurs or mean slurs! heckling is all part of the game! Fans are BOUND to get fustrated and mouth offf when there team is 0-4..the same as last year. I more or less try to go heckle My Friends from Tronto! They jsut dont get it! nomatter the standing argo's suck!

why is s. u. c. k. Bleeped!!! what if i wanted to say my vacume sure can suck

I have seen fans show poor taste. It is really funny to be sitting near those heckling the visiting team, and telling them how they bad they are.
Even though they are winning.

I sit with a guy who refuses to use the box j tix he pays for his wife and in-laws even when one of them is missing. On occasion I’ve had the opportunity to go down there and sit through a game. I can barely make it through a half. Its really bad down there. I don’t understand why one or two haven’t lost their tix for the good of everyone around them.

You make some good points jakethesnake but you have to keep in mind that hamilton is by far the most blue collar of all the cfl towns. With this comes less restraint to ones natural urge to tell people how they really feel. Most of the fans are not like the type you mention though.

I will always remember the nice old couple that have season seats with their son in the front row of box I. They are there no matter the record and they never yell anything but encouragement. I have been in BC for a few years now… are they still there? Never knew their names.

Anyway I think people like that embody what most Ti-Cat fans are like. Loyal and supportive… even though often heartbroken.

Can we please move on from this pedestrian stereotype? Having been raised in a blue collar family I resent the implication that I'm somehow suppose to be less able to control myself. Restraint is not the sole domain of the rich nor is there any correlation between income and morals. Do you really believe white collar people have more class? This notion is just an excuse used by those without restraint to justify their behaviour and it comes at the expense of those who can.

Add to that the fact that the blue collar tag for Hamilton is mostly mythological at this point. There are far more health professionals, university students, seniors, etc., in Hamilton than blue collar workers, I would guess. If Hamilton qualifies as blue collar, then so does Toronto and Calgary, at the very least.

Funny thing about the forbidden chant jakethesnake, if you were sitting in section 22 at the home opener against the Argos (near the top)... towards the middle of the 4th quarter on their was a fair sized group of Argo fans using "the chant". Against us! In our own house. It was pretty heartbreaking, to say the least.

I think taunting is part of the game, personally. Obviously some things like racial slurs go (WAY) too far. But I will never forget, Labour Day Game 1992, the one that got national media attention because a team with poor attendance sold out, I was pretty young and saw it with my family. Rocket Ismail who was a star had just blown a play early in the game, and sitting from box seats close enough to hear, I made sure he realized it. The language wasn't anything you wouldn't here in a PG movie, mind you, just a little crude at worst say. He looked up at me, clearly frustrated and I think a little shocked that a kid had just got a good jab in. And it was a good jab, everyone around us laughed. My family that was with me at the time isn't really blue collar at all, just football fans.

It's like that episode of the The Simpson's with Homer and Mr. Burns heckling the team thats facing the Springfield baseball team. "Pitcher's off his rocker, kissing betty crocker", that kind of thing. I've always found that heckling, when its done right, is one of the funnest things about a football game. Or watching any live game really.

If somehow THIS season with the coaches and talent we have we don't things turn around, maybe their is something to this "forbidden chant curse"...

I understand the heckler who shouts disparaging comments,
about the performance of a player on the opposing team.

and ILoveHamilton, you directed your comments to an opponent.

Someone who chose a username like yours would never taunt
any player on any team that represents our city, would you?

taunt - abuse vocally; express contempt or ridicule;

-to reproach in a mocking, insulting, or contemptuous manner.

I am aware that most sports fans today
don't think the Golden Rule applies
to comments they make at sports events.

My question is...why not?

Because if the Golden Rule were to apply to sports events, we would have to love the Argos, too.

I wasn't implying at all that Hamilton people have less class. My meaning was that blue collar people tend to be more honest and forthright.

I prefer people that are real and honest. I lived in Hamilton for about 7 years so I have some experience with how the people are there.

I understand the heckler who shouts disparaging comments, about the performance of a player on the opposing team.

and ILoveHamilton, you directed your comments to an opponent.

Someone who chose a username like yours would never taunt
any player on any team that represents our city, would you?

taunt - abuse vocally; express contempt or ridicule;

-to reproach in a mocking, insulting, or contemptuous manner.

I am aware that most sports fans today
don't think the Golden Rule applies
to comments they make at sports events.

My question is...why not?

I wouldn't taunt or insult a Tiger-Cat, no. However I think that, uh, verbally suggesting that its time for a player to be pulled ("its time to pull him", "gettem' outta there", etc), and applauding when he is and the next guy is brought out... I think thats fair game though personally. I don't consider it taunting or abusive, I'd even say thats part of a lot of sports, whether its the Tiger-Cats, Blue Jays or Raptors that your talking about you see it happen all the time with pitchers and QBs. Timmy Chang got a standing ovation from parts of the stadium when he came in during the Argo game for instance. But being insulting and abusive to your own players, it really doesn't do any good whatsoever and its not something I do. :thup: Cheer for them home team, or get the heck out of the stadium. :lol:

Thats a really good question about the Golden Rule though, cause I swear, outside of Football, I'm a big believer in it. :lol: So, I'm going to try to give you my best answer because its a question I've thought about before and I think its a really good question.

Did you ever see that interview clip with Pinball Clemons, a really great and upstanding person if there ever was one, where they ask him about the Tiger-Cats and he says that, "You know, hate is a really strong word... But we really HATE the Hamiltion Tiger-Cats.". Maybe I screwed up a word or two, but thats what he said. That's not a very "golden rule" attitude on the surface. That's not even a very positive attitude, its completely negative actually. But Pinball, despite being a lifetime Argo, is a classy good guy family man with tons of respect and somebody whose life parents would rightfully tell their children to look up to. What he said is in many ways worse than the forbidden chant even, but clearly, that in no way reflects on his character.

I think that competitive sport of all kinds is a modern healthy expression of a lingering primitive us vs. them mentality, that lets us for a few hours every week want "us" to beat "them" without feeling bad about it. Sport isn't very golden rule in general without the proper context. Cheering a QB being sacked and possibly having a concussion or broken limb isn't very nice, but we do it every game and love it. I'm sure when a reciever on the opposing team blows a play, and we cheer his failure, we make him feel terrible, thats not very positive at all, or nice or golden rule but we do it.

I think the context though behind all that, and all sport, is that through competition we make eachother more than we could have been otherwise. We toughen eachother up, we force eachother to be better. And then at the end of the game we shake hands, and suddenly there's no more hate between Hamilton-Toronto or whoever is opposing eachother. Mostly because there wasn't ever real true hate to begin with, the only hate between us Tiger-Cat fans and the Argos is the same one that goes on between sibblings. We love them, hate them and love to hate them, and they feel the same way about us. So its more complicated than "non-positive cheering is bad because its not nice and breaks the golden rule" in my opinion, because underneath the non-racist,non-sexist,etc taunts is actually a really good thing... its part of a healthy competitive drive to win, to improve and to bond with your community.

I'm sure someone could argue that we should only be cheering "positive" things, and this would achieve the same effect. Maybe they are right, and I was just taught wrong. Maybe the next generation of fans will think like this, and even should think like this because its the right thing to do. We don't see too many brawls in the stands anymore between drunken fans for instance like we did in the 80s and early 90s, and no one would argue thats a bad thing. Maybe its the same thing with this. But I don't know if there is such a thing as only cheering the positive, sport is by nature competitive... to win your opponent must lose. And I still think, if its done in good fun, like I think Pinball Clemons did in that interview, "expressing negative feelings" are actually positive for that reason that competition makes us better.

I think that, back in the days of the forbidden chant, it wasn't really a negative thing, but actually a fun thing that after 3 hours of 25k+ fans screaming at eachother's teams, you would see after the game Ti-Cat and Argo fans alike chilling out at the Tim Hortons waiting for the traffic to clear up before heading home or going to bars together. You still see Hamilton-Toronto fans doing this now of course. But I have a strong suspicion that, because it's competitive sport and not church, if one were to do a poll of Toronto fans that attend Labour Day games, you'd find that many of them miss the lost "negativity" and the forbidden chant too, because these things only appear negative. :wink:

Very, very well said, ILH.
Thank you.

Maybe the neighbourhood surrounding the stadium brings out the "blue-collar" in all of us, stereotype or not.

One of the reasons why I like IWS, besides the sitelines, is that it is in a tough neighbourhood that seems to lend itself well to a mean game of football.

I wonder how many ticat fans live down in that area, as opposed to fans that drive in from other parts of the city or from out of town. I guess it's probably a good mix.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a loud and rowdy crowd down at the stadium.

I've been to a lot of games in a lot of places...the types of things said aren't a whole lot different than anywhere else--there's just more people willing to get vocally behind the team. And that's good--from a fan and players perspective.

The last thing you want is an atmosphere like ACC.

I actually think the most 'over the line' behaviour I've seen has been at SkyDome. The playoff game there a few years ago was a hair from being pretty out of control.

And for the record, I've never heard any racial things said by anyone at IWS...I think our fans seem to be good with policing ourselves a bit. The worst I ever heard were a few derogatory remarks hurled toward the Alouette fans during the big East final game...a generation ago.

I'd say 95% of Cat fans do it right. Vocal, but not stupid.