Crossover question

If regular season ends today Argos move to west division and is seated 5th. The teams then go thru playoff as 1vs6, 2vs5 etc. How does that sound?

3 versus 6 and 4 th versus 5th would be the first round .

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That makes more sense, otherwise you end up with 3 teams in the second round.

I still like two divisions the most, however I would be more in support of 1 division long before Winnipeg becomes an Eastern team again and again and again.....

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I began this thread with the question of should the league allow two teams to cross over since the East teams are so bad.
In summary if the league goes to no east west division top teams end up in playoffs. If stays with divisions then allowing a second crossover team makes sense as it will give incentive to teams and owners to put the best team they can afford on the field. Otherwise they miss cup and revenue.

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I'm torn on this

You see the traditionalists who insist on an east-west Grey Cup
You see certain cities who freak out if their team has to move to the east (Winnipeg) yet claim they have no issue with a single division

Heck the NFL had no issues making 8 divisions of 4 teams each and playing division rivals more often (and their geography is totally nuts)
EVERY major league has had unbalanced divisions; from NFL to NHL to MLB to NBA
So why is it such a huge issue we have a 5-4 split?

Leagues such as NBA and NHL in particular have always rewarded mediocrity with home field / ice / arena playoff games

I have heard the rumour that a single division (somehow) increases younger fan support (despite the fact younger fans seem to enjoy predicting divisional winners in other sports + the uncertainty as to which team is better when they had no met in regular season)

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Spoken like a true Easterner.

This year the 5 best teams in the league are arguably in the West, that is if you think the Elks are better than the Argos. They did beat them.

The system is broken and competitive integrity is a joke. It’s mostly been that way for decades.

There is no reason why geography should determine whether you make the playoffs or have a home playoff date. That’s what they play the games for supposedly. Not in this league. No one in the East deserves a home playoff game this year or most years, but receive them because they are on the dole. Not trying to offend, that’s just the reality.

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There is a difference between geographic divisions in a 32 team football league and the same in a 9 team league.

The former results in a maximum of 2 regular season meetings between division rivals. That's 14 opponents over 17 games. So much diversity and still enough scarcity in the divisional matchups to make them special. The NFL also has a playoff format deep enough to largely smooth out the geographic mulligans. You still need to top a 16 team conference to get all the playoff perks (home field, bye, weakest opponent). Thats depth of field and a compelling competition

The latter results in among other things the Cats and Argos meeting 4 times in 5 weeks. Anything special happened at BMO last night? It also results in .500 teams toping the playoffs of a 4 team east division while another team may need 14 or 15 wins to do the same in the west.

The CFL is woefully too small to be a divided league in 2022. A 9 team competition would be more compelling and easier to at least attempt to sell to new fans who have a world of sports to consume at their fingertips.

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Put me in charge of the CFL and this shite will end once and for all.

Putting me in charge will be like a youngster complaining about a doctor resetting their broken arm after a sports injury. In the same way, there will be those insisting nothing should be changed and they will scratched, beat and moan...but nothing ever gets better.

Insanity is repeating the same agenda and expecting a different result.

Discuss.

@JoeyT I called out the NFL in particular because their divisions were not even based on geography for a long long time. The current divisions make alot more sense than they did a few short years ago.

They were (literally) random groupings of teams

Other sports have been bizarre. eg Atlanta Braves in NL West for decades, Vancouver Canucks in the Eastern Division.
Even today; Nashville Predators are in the Central while Toronto and Detroit are in the Eastern, despite the fact Nash is further east and is certainly much closer to Tampa / Florida / Carolina etc
Or how Maple Leafs were gifted playoff gates due to a bizarre grouping with the California Seals and later Cleveland Barons.

But all this circles back to calls from people (eg @Jon just above) complaining a team like the Argos has home field in the playoffs

I think this whole thing is far more sour grapes by the west who see Toronto / Ottawa / Montreal making playoffs without drawing well at all

Also to Jon are you kidding me? How are the Elks (or even the Riders) better than the Argos???

Edmonton in particular has given up an insane 290 points this season
Toronto defence is light years better (174 points against; and that is including the BC blowout)

Sask is hardly a given for a cross over; despite winning games their +8 PF is on par with the top 3 East teams
If they lost a QB (the way Ottawa did) I suspect they would quickly fall apart as well
NO chance to get a West playoff spot, only hope is beating Montreal for a cross over

Fixed it for ya.

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Exactly. It has nothing to do with attendance, though that doesn’t help the bottom line.

I didn’t say the Elks were better than Toronto, just that they could be. They beat them head to head. Both of them were equally destroyed by BC. It’s a close call at the moment. Artificially inflating Eastern point totals by playing each other constantly does nothing to show Eastern teams are better than Western teams. Those are points that mostly wouldn’t exist if there was a balanced schedule under a one division model. Look at the head to head record between the two conferences. It’s not been close for the most part.

If the quality of the team determined playoff seedings instead of geography, two of BC. Calgary and Winnipeg would be hosting the lead in games to the Grey Cup this year. The fact that one Eastern team will have that opportunity this year and in many other years is a gift to the East. They haven’t earned it. Meanwhile likely either BC or Calgary will go on the road to play an opponent superior to any in the East and the winner will then go on the road again, likely to Winnipeg this year. Meanwhile the East winner will sit at home waiting for the winner of the semi final game and will require only one win against an Eastern team or the West crossover team. Sign me up for that route. The easiest route to a championship game in all of sport belongs to the East winner. There isn’t even much point in playing regular season games in the East. They should just draw the winner out of a hat because it’s like winning the lottery anyway.

Now this isn’t the case every single year. Hamilton earned its bye in 2019 and before that Montreal did a few times when they had Calvillo, but that is the exception. The East wins more Grey Cups than you would expect because they have a much easier route to the game every single year and as we know in football, any team can win any one football game at any time (in 51 years I don’t recall the East having a stronger top 3 teams than the West but haven’t checked so acknowledge it could have happened up to say a whopping 5 times over that span).

I am not whining as you intimate, but simply outlining undeniable facts that make a mockery of competitive integrity and systemically give Eastern teams a huge advantage. This is easy to remedy with moving to one division, although of course no system can be perfect, but that would be much more fair than the current system. If significant expansion ever happens this could be revisited as someone has already pointed out. There aren’t enough teams to gloss over the shortcomings of the current set up as there are in the NFL or NHL. The imbalance isn’t fleeting or rotating. It is permanent and always the same. The two best teams in the league should have the byes and are often both in the West, even though Western teams have a much tougher schedule and much more travel. The Argos don’t even leave southern Ontario until October.

Are there any more advantages you would like to have out East @kav? How about we play into November so that the Western
teams can suffer through -20 playoff games like last year and the increased risk of injury that brings? This has been explained to me as being ok because it’s not that cold in the East and it’s tradition.

I believe I can sum up this already too long a post with the word “ethnocentrism”, which word has nothing to do with competitive fairness.

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Well said.
Though I'm sure more red herrings to distract from the real issue of "asymmetrical fairness" will be forthcoming.

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Ontario Division
Hamilton
Ottawa
Toronto

Prairie Division
Montreal
Saskatchewan
Winnipeg

Mountain Division
BC
Calgary
Edmonton

Everyone plays their divisional opponents 4 times each for a grand total of 8 games. That leaves 8 games left against 6 out of division opponents, for a total of a 16 game season.

One wildcard plus the 3 division champions play a best-of-three series with the two series winners facing off in a one game playoff in the Grey Cup.

C'mon folks! Eight games against your divisional opponents! That's an overall travel savings for the eastern (Ontario) teams that can travel by bus!

Why isn't this being planned for 2023?!

Take the two worst teams and have a George Brancato Bowl before the Grey Cup for added excitement for the #1 draft pick in each round !

What's wrong with all of you people that piss on this?!

That's even worse than the current status.

I will take a one division over what you're proposing any day.

Three divisions will make more sense with 12 teams than 9.

Two 6 team divisions would be even better.

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Travel savings... I hear this over and over..

You can cut a business down until there just isn't a business anymore.. If the CFL can't afford travel associated with a 9 team league and as balanced a schedule as possible, it shouldn't be in business at all.

The CFL east doesn’t sell to a broad consumer base at 4 teams. We are going to sell 3 team divisions now? So in years when the 3 worst teams find themselves in the same group, we are going to gift one of them a playoff spot?

9 team, single-table league now and restructure to allow expansion to unserved markets prior to permanent stadium projects to have a deeper, more compelling league with more content to sell... it is the only way to avoid the slow spiral to complete irrelevance.

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Work with what you have at nine teams.

It would be a stretch to say Canada has more major cities to support a tenth team let alone twelve teams. :man_facepalming:

Bring on the debt by adding more teams :man_facepalming: Yep, that's smart.

Certainly no travel savings for Montreal when you put the most easterly team in the prairie division.

lol wut?
You are blaming the weather on the east as well now?

BC are only team in league playing indoors last I checked

On a more serious note I actually am all for starting / ending season early
I also have said 18 games for a 9 team league really are too much (and THAT issue can solely be blamed on you westerners; the east division played a 16 game season forever, you guys always had a longer season, even back in the old old old days)

I also posted this in other thread but as this is the "official" cross thread will restate it

Toronto > Saskatchewan

Toronto 174 PA > Saskatchewan 192 PA

Toronto 3 GP vs East / 4 GP vs West
Saskatchewan 6 GP vs East / 2 GP vs West

If Sask can only muster 4 wins playing the "weak" East teams so often while Toronto gets same number of wins playing the "strong" West teams more often it seems obvious the Argos are much better than Riders and should have no issue beating them if a cross does occour

(However huge caveat here as I expect Sask W-L to plummet once they meet heavyweights Win / BC / Cal and TO should stay about the same)

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If we go with a divided league, we need an even number of divisions.

And making Montreal bus to Winnipeg and Regina would be unfair.
:laughing:

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