Combined 1-7 in Toronto & Vancouver not good for the CFL

I don't expect sympathy. Failure to develop a strong, exciting quarterback (Toronto), and keeping a coach who's past his prime and two incompetent co-ordinators (BC) - both teams only have themselves to blame for their current predicament. But to continually have mediocre product served up in the 2 largest English speaking markets is bad for the league.

This is BCs 3rd straight poor start (following back-to-back 8-10 seasons). Remarkably, Empire was 88% full on Friday (24,117) - and loud - for a non-division opponent, but the season ticket base has taken a huge hit the past couple of years.

21K in Toronto for a weekend home opener not overly encouraging (despite the hot weather). But how many years has it been since the Argos have had an exciting offense?

Like it or not, we need these markets to be healthy for fan, media, and sponsorship interest.

These teams should win then. Honestly, the CFL success is dependent on all its markets being successful. Not one market is more important than the other. Instead, teams like the Lions and argos should focus on putting a respectable product on the field. Coming into this season I had big expectations for the Lions (and the good news is aside from the Esks, we have two other inept teams in our division) but it's apparent changes need to be done. This is way too reminiscent of last year.

What’s with the set-up now at Rogers Centre? Gone are the team themed banners in the 500 level and the banners that walled off the unused north end zone seating. They’ve put up a few ads and exposed even more seats in the cavernous dome while their attendance still suffers. Cinnamon and Sokoloski at least had the place dressed up as best as its ever been for football. These days however it looks like its back to 1999 in there.

It is interesting to note that both teams are owned by David Braley... I wonder if attendance in Vancouver will rise once BC Place is re-opened...

Wasn't the average attendance at BC Place higher than the capacity of Empire? I expect it to go up to its old levels, if not immediately, then within the next 2 or 3 seasons.

And the American based operated.controlled.leagues - NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, MLS all hate it if NY, Chicago, Boston or LA, or Pbilly don't do well and make.it to the finals for the ratings. Big deal, it's sports not some rehearsed theatre play or concert.

Ok, some say the CFL is more vulnerable and need the big city teams to do well. Hogwash, the beauty about the CFL is that a small market team like the Riders can ne no. 1 in sales of stuff. :thup:

I agree with you the onus is completely on them to put a good product on the field. But you and I both know that it doesn't take much to make the CFL irrelevant in big cities. In fact, I would argue that we're already there in Toronto. It's just my observation that it would be better for TV ratings, sponsorships, and the overall health of the league if these two big markets had good teams, not bad ones.

It's a lot easier to sell consistent mediocrity in Regina and Winnipeg than Toronto and Vancouver.

That's true. I think the Lions moving into BC place will help a lot. One observation I've made is that Canadian football fans don't like sitting in the endzones. The seats at Empire between the goallines are pretty well full, but the endzones are generally sparse. Also of note, the Lions drew considerably better for their game against Hamilton despite being 0-3, than they did for their home opener against Calgary.

Can't argue with you about Toronto. That market is a work in progress and the CFL needs to be very patient if they ever hope to break through.

Well of course the best thing for the league would be to have competitive teams with winning records in every city. Of course, that is a logical impossibility. There will always be 1 or 2 top contenders, 1 or 2 bottom dwellers and the rest somewhere in between. The OP's complaint suggests that somehow the league should rig it so that the two "key" cities (which perhaps they aren't) are always in the top-half of the stat's.

This is pro sports; some teams will be great and others will be terrible. The biggest thing is ownership that is steady and can handle a couple of mediocre years and financial losses without throwing in the towel.

Maybe Buono needs to fire himself and Toronto needs a more capable and entertaining QB, but as we've seen before many times, wholesale changes sometimes produce absolutely ZIP difference in on-field results.

doesn't take much to make the CFL irrelevant in big cities

Never quite understood this expression. The Blue Jays, Leafs and Raptors, TFC are irrelevant to me and I live in the Greater Toronto area, their success means nothing to me, the only team that I really follow close are the Argonauts. Now sure, you're going to say I'm the minority, it's the other teams jerseys you see in shop windows. I don't care, if the Argos and CFL were so irrelevant than why does TSN generally put CFL highlights before just about anything else most of the time except perhaps hockey? They have a vested interest, as do I, mine emotion there's more a financial committement and whether the Argos are "irrelevant" or not, doesn't effect either TSN or myself. You couldn't pay me to see a Blue Jays or TFC game, Leafs or Raptors I'll go if I'm paid to do so. Argos I'll pay. Some people might laugh at that, well, that's irrelevant to me. :wink:

While the logic would seem to be sound
The Alouettes...2 time reigning Grey Cup Champs have yet to sell out 25,000 Molson Stadium this year..
It's got everybody scratching their heads to be sure.
But winning is obviously no assurance of great attendance.

And might I add:

For Shame Montreal!!!

:thdn: :thdn: :thdn:

was it moving week again in montreal?
lol

No but note the attendance was near sell out for the most recent 2 games as opposed to 22,000 for the opener. I still chalk that up to moving day. Also apparently Montreal is suffering from a huge infrastructure crisis with a major bridge condemned and another threatened with closure? Montreal is an island after all.

Honestly, Vancouver will be just fine. They obviously haven't taken well to Empire stadium, and they were consistently drawing in the high 20's to mid 30' thousand when they were in the old BC place. Once they move back into BC Place I'm sure attendance will climb to match that.

Toronto is much more concerning, however Braley already stated that he's not giving away freebies like the previous ownership did to falsify attendance numbers. What you see in Toronto is what is actually there and paid for.

and if you notice, the argos have trouble selling the seats in the lower bowl between the 20's.
as i said about the argos ticket prices, you can see i am right when you watch the games on tv and those sections are bare.

On top of which the dome is a horrible place to watch any sport especially a football game.

...EASY FIX....just get Braley to divest himself of one of the teams...I don't like this set-up anyways....especially when Braley says he has a buyer for the leos in the wings....Sell em for cripes sake :roll:

:thup: :thup: :thup: :thup: It was touch and go for team green not too long ago. If a small market can turn it around, the larger ones should be able too as well.

We've seen both the large and small markets struggle at times. The league suffers in both situations equally. A small league needs every team to be competitive. The one reason I refuse to watch baseball is because the Yankees can buy a world series due to the lack of a cap. They win it every 4 years roughly on average. What a joke to all the other teams fans who pay hard earned money to support their home team with no chance of winning. How that league can support a non-level playing field is criminal. If I was an owner of a smaller market team, I'd start a new league with any of the larger market teams. See how long the big five/six last on their own.

Mediocrity cost us Ottawa and almost Saskatchewan. TO, Hamilton and the ALs have had their issues. If Montreal hadn't a strong team these last few years, I could see the expos situation all over again. In short we need all the teams to be strong. Last year a third of the games were decided in the last minute. That is fun to watch.

braley will sell them after he gets the big 99th grey cup payday this november.
this is his payday for his last 6 years of work. he will sell them after.