Well the players aren't getting the money ,so when you see the financials of the Eskimos, Riders and Bombers and you see over seven million going to the "players and coaches" then we know that the coaches are bringing in close to 3 million. A CFL team can no longer spend there way into bankruptcy by over paying for players, but can still do it by over paying for coaches. The Bombers for instance have payed for 2 even sometimes 3 head coaches for every one of the last 5 seasons.Lets not forget that the three highest payed people in The CFL are Wally Buono, Kent Austin and john Hufnegal... is it not strange that a player is not even in the top 3? (#4 is Cohon, with Ray being #5 at best)Another thing that chaps my arse is that 90% of the coaches are Yanks. Like why do we even call it the CFL if we ont provide canadians with jobs? Like how is it that no CIS coaches get jobs in the CFL ,and yet the CFL hires people who don't even know the rules of CFL football. How frusterating would itbe to work your entire career in Canadian football and not be promoted and yet some long snapper who botches a game in the NFL gets a coaching job ovr you (yes, I'm taling about Trey Junkin) there are way to many examples, but here area few... jermaine Copeland, Dinwitee, the new coach of the Als, Ed Hervey,Cory Chamberland.... how in the heck are any of these guys more qualified then a CIS coach?... Heck, even a junior coach is way more qualified..... What needs to happen is that we need a quota for Canadian coaches... if your head coach or GM is Canadian then you would be allowed more American postion coaches. More importantly we need to see coaches salaries capped, and the saved money going over to raise the ridiculously low players cap. I go to the games to see great players...not great coaches. Bad coaching actually makes the games more exciting...lol.... I say we cap a teams coaching expenses (including gm)at 1.2 million and then take the saved money and give it to the players. The Canadian coaches would be cheaper then competing with the NCAA for American coaches, so a Canadian quota would actually help bring these expenses down.
Do you think that what get's deposited in one's bank account is the cost of employing said person?
What % of an average person's salary do you believe goes to further employment costs? 35-40 on average generally...I am guessing less than that in the CFL...call it 20%, that is that it 870K there. So lets call that 5.2 mil for players now...call it 10 coaches per clubs...thats a couple mil left over...HC and GM we will call 275each (very modest) x 1.2 = 660K...so that is ~1.35 mil for 8 coaches
Do you think that no amenities are subsidized for camp and PR players?
You also fail to mention that the 3 people you place as highest paid are both HC and GM...not just 1. Granted, Wally is now only GMing. You take those guys and split the duties you just brought their wage from one at say 450K to 2 totally 550+
As far as paying a coach you fired...hey, don't fire him then.
Why do you pay your HC and GM as well as the OC and DC so much...because they are worth every penny. The OC and DC as sooooo critical in games...yeah, they need the talent, but they are largely the deciding factors in games....2 even teams comes down to coaching and play calling. Getting the talent required is on the GM...he is responsible for all those players on the field.
Would you think that in an office employs 50 people that the average salary is say 60K that the manager should only be 60K?
I do not agree with you whatsoever...but hey, to each their own
Your math is wrong buddy, because unless you have some other financials not one of the Bombers, Riders or Eskies report what their "player and coaches" expenses are.
CFL teams report their football ops expenses yes, both the Bombers/Eskies were ~9M there.
But there Is ALOT more in the football ops expenses then just players/coaches, you got scouts, GM's, training staff. Likely also equipment and supplies for football operations(pads, footballs, tackling dummies and all that fun stuff)
Now should the CFL consider putting in some sort of cap for the rest of football ops, maybe. But then like the SMS they'd need to set a floor too, with the big issue being that with coaches/GM's contracts guaranteed you are basically saying you can't fire guys or else limiting them to short term deals.
I'm also not sure how you get 90% of coaches are American. Bobby Dyce, Marcus Howell, Corey Grant, Paul Osbaldiston, Mike Benevides(HC), Kelly Bates, Jacques Chapdelaine, Chad Hudson, Jean-Marc Edme, Chuck McMann, Brent Monson, Mark Kilam, Rick Campbell. btw I didn't even check the Argos or go person by person so probably missing some.
That's easily A LOT more then 10% of coaches in the CFL that are Canadian. Even if each team has 10 coaches(average is likely 9), that's 13+ out of under 80 coaches so 16.25%.(again didn't look at Toronto or check every coach so more like 20-25%)
Not to mention Wally the great is also a Canadian(born in Italy, raised in MTL), along with Taman and Desjardins are Canadian GM's.(1/3 of CFL GM's)
Noel Thorpe in Montreal too.
Mike O'Shea and Ed Philion for the Argos are both Canadian.
Not true. From 2010 until Lapo was fired the Bombers were only paying 1 head coach. Berry was off the books after the 2009 season and Kelly was paid a settlement and was off the books before spring, 2010.
How is it that we have a whole developmental system to launch Canadian coaches into the Canadian Football Leaugue and yet you guys are satisfied that 20% of the coaches come from this system. Meanwhile the other 80%+ come from a system that doesn't even play Canadian Football... Am I the only one that finds this strange.... Like do the top Rugby League teams get their coaches from Rugby Union?
...back in the 70s all of the coaches were American.... This has ben a problem for a very long time... All of the QBs were American then to.... why is it called the CFL?
Huh? what developmental system are you talking about the CIS? umm... NO. It's grossly under funded, several teams only have a full time HC and maybe an OC/DC(to be clear I AM NOT talking about Laval when I say most)
So it's pretty hard for EVERY CFL team to have 4-5 Canadian coaches via that developmental system without.
But you are again wrong, it's UNDER 80% American or OVER 20% Canadian for the coaches, you initially came out with the 10% Canadian number that wasn't even in the same ballpark, that's twice the number you initially thought it was and the number of Canadian coaches has been growing lately so again no need for a ratio.
Now for the comparison, most NHL teams have Canadian coaches, regardless of the fact that there are 23 US teams.
Most north american soccer teams seem to have European coaches.(all three Canadian MLS teams are Euro coaches)
So it seems to line up with those two leagues, now as for increasing the number of Canadian coaches that will come in time as the funding for the CIS increases.
How will they get increased funding, well either through increased attendance which would surely help the football side OR with a lucrative national TV deal, it looks like the CIS-Rogers are pairing up for a 3 sport(BBall, Football, hockey) TV deal, but how lucrative it will be is unknown so far or more corporate/league sponsorship.
Those are all more CIS problems then CFL.
You can't start controlling non player expenses. It is a nice "idea" I'd love to see it but it can't be done.
Teams need to find their own niche and it would be unfair to force Montreal and Toronto to limit salaries and have Edmonton offer NFL caliber training facilities, low taxes and low housing costs (for example) or how do you control expenses of a President like Scott Mitchell who also runs other business entities for Bob Young ? Or if Winnipeg wants to spend 3 to 5 million paying for a stadium it is not fair to set a floor on how little they can spend on their operations or damage other teams to bring them down to their level.
We have some private owners and some community ownership. Before we get to that. Let's see teams share revenues better so that players aren't the ones subsidizing the southern Ontario markets. Teams can't even agree on how to share TV money and Jersey money. Best way is to decide how to share the pool and let teams manage their own pool of money.
well said Barnes.
the 7mil plus stuff he somehow said it was "players and coaching staff," But if that is indeed all of football operations salaries 7 mil seams really cheap. You have payroll people, accountants, marketing staff, game-day staff, etc. that's a lot o mouths to feed so to speak.
the 10/20% coaching staff being Canadian seems light as well, but even if it is at 20%...hey, they have the experience...they have worked in systems that they have full-time assistants and can step into the roll better, and most of these guys do not walk in without CFL experience of some kind. Most walk in as a line or positional coach if they haven't any, and you don't really require CFL experience for that. Yes, I know there have been a few coordinators and HCs that have walked right in w/o CFL experience, but not very many. Get a Canadian who has success as a CFL QB and perhaps he would develop into a coach or something at some point.
Looking only at BC for example...their coaching staff is about 50/50 ratio of Canadian and not.
Honestly, at this point if Bungle wants to try to support his case I think something is needed to back it up...some link supporting the statements/numbers or something. I do believe that is the first time I have ever called someone out on that here.
Becomes really complicated because some teams have their own merchandising departments. I know the Riders do, and I think the Bombers do. They Lions might as well, but that would be it. The others rely on CFL branding. Tough to say 'well, tha's their choice so they should pay to the league the same as others' when you look at how successful their market specific branding has been. BUT...yes, I do overall agree with you're statements.
Tough to handcuff a private owner on his direct staff's pay.
So why is it a problem that the coaches were American? Are you a another xenephobe?
The CFL has tried to go after the best coaches available and if they are American so what??
Hamilton has had 2 Canadian Head coaches in the past few years and they weren't too successful. I don't think a coaches nationality is relevant.
As for salaries for coaches, I think we have far too many coaches in football. Why do we need so many coaches?
HC, assistant HC, Defense coaches, assistant defense coaches, Offensive coaches, Assistant coaches, line coaches, special team coaches, "O" line coaches, "D" line coaches. This "specialty" coaching thing has gone out of control.
The reason we have so little Canadian coaching content in the CFL is that they don't want to leave their CIS positions and with good reason. Look at the stability guys like Towriss,Constantin,Plaztek,Nill get. 200k a year plus car and expenses, pension for as long as they want the job and if a kid tells them off he cuts them.
Thanks. I am very encouraged by the stability in ownership. I think in the end we are seeing that the stability has allowed trust to develop between the owners and Cohon has been able to put that trust to good use. Mark has a big job coming up with the new CBA. I have a feeling that will be very challenging. I hope both sides start talking now...
Imo CFL staffing levels are ok to light. In the NFL they are heavy.
Why do you need positional coaches...well, to improve players, review countless footage, come up with schemes and strategy overall...never mind against specific teams and players. If you think a line coach can do both, or a coordinator do both, and do it effectively....well I don't even know what to say to that, other than they can't. Some spots can be doubled up effectively...ol coach with rb coach for example...but few have a good enough skill set to effectively coach both to an improving level.
If you want stagnancy and more sloppy play, them by all means, cut back coaching staff.
Coaches are the ones who help players minimize penalties, improve their routes and hands, improve line of sight, play recognition and adjustment, reaction time, hot audibles, positional play, general improvement, and on and on and on.
But it is very common for a coordinator to double up as a position coach (OC as QB coach, DC as DB coach, etc.).
why call it the CFL if coaches aren't even Canadian?
I don't know about your Canada, but the Canada I live in is made up of people from around the world. I actually take a great deal of pride in my nation when I learn that a person who came to this country to play football has decided to continue living and working here long after their playing days are over.
Well the Canada i live in is vastly different then yours.... I had to leave British columbia and go work in Alberta because they would only hire Americans because they work for third world wages, However, when i went out to work for Canada's largest construction company,guess where all off the bosses were from... Ya, you guessed it. They were all Americans. We are squatters in our own nation. We hire forign workers to be our bosses...not to do our menial jobs like the rest of the world... We have the whole forign worker program backwards.
What's even more funny. Is they are buying everything up with their fake currency. Party is about to end...