CFL per team profits

I'm going to take a educated guess on CFL teams profit amounts or lack there of. I'm talking about the real profits, not the millions some of the community owned teams must spend to keep their community owned status in place. So i'm counting the millions that some teams pour into their operations, just to get rid of some money.

Riders real profit on 40 millon in revenue
16 Million
EDM
4 Million
Bombers
2 Million
Calgary
1.5 Million
Lions
1.5 Million
Montreal
As high as 4.5 million,but now droped to 1.2 Million (ue to losing Corp money)
Hamilton
1.8 Million lost
Toronto
3.5 Million Lost

Sorry, i submitted by mistake, but would like to know other people's thoughts

Your Rider figure is a bit excessive... I'm not sure what it would really be of they were not community owned, but chances are if they were private other expenses would be a bit higher, offsetting against extra "costs" incurred to maintain their "community-owned" status. Two examples being that they don't have to pay taxes right now, and their rent at Taylor Field maxes out at only $200,000 a year.

Part of their revenue also comes from being community-owned (for example selling shares at 250 a pop), and it's probably easier to get some sponsorship funds (for example from Saskatchewan Crowns).

So it's not exactly an easy comparison to the privately-owned teams.

I'd say your estimation was pretty accurate flutefan02, with some caveats.

The Riders have increased spending and investments as their revenues have increased (up from $11 million gross revenue six or seven years ago) to keep their announced profits reasonable for a community-owned entity. Under private ownership and with unnecessary spending eliminated, the Riders could likely post at least $12M in annual profits.

I don't think the Argos lose $3.5M, as their expenses are fairly modest, more likely closer to a $2M loss.

The other factor is hosting the Grey Cup which can dramatically increase team "profits" that season. The Stamps confirmed "over $3M" profits for their last GC; the Esks "over $5M" GC profits; with the Lions profiting an estimated $10M with last year's GC. The Toronto GC this year has the potential to generate $10M+ in profits. It was reported that the Argos generated a $5M profit for their last GC (and these profits should be amortized over a 8-10 year period.)

So here is my amended CFL annual profit list (assuming the community-owned clubs were operated to maximize announced profits):

Sask: $12M
Edm: $3.5M
Mon: $2.5M
Wpg: $2M
Cal: $2M
B.C: $2M
Ham: $1.5M (loss)
Tor: $2M (loss)

:|

Your correct about the Grey Cup money of course. I was trying to just include yearly profit and loss. However looking at the big picture, Mr Braily? with back to back Grey Cups could be looking at a 15 million profit. The Argo number i was looking at was based on the last 2 years. I think this year, the Argos will bring that number down to closer to 1 million in operational loss. However with 10 million in Grey Cup profit, i think the Argos will be fine. Hamilton getting their new stadium should put the Cat's at a profit making operation

I highly doubt the Riders had $40 million in revenue last year. And I have no idea how you figured they'll have $16 million in profit based on what's in their financial report from last year.

In the 2010-2011 annual report revenue totalled $38,132,979; the results from last year will come out sometime over the next few weeks. It will probably be lower than $38 mill though.

You're free to view the annual report here.

THE COLOUR OF MONEY:
The Roughriders posted a $27,000 account surplus in 2002, their first surplus in 18 years.

According to their most recent Financial Statement, the team had $28,100,000 in cash and long-term investments in 2010, with the majority of that surplus being generated in the previous two seasons.

The Riders spent over $7,000,000 to purchase merchandise in 2010, which generated just over $10,000,000 in revenue. Obviously some of this merchandise in still in stock at the 3 Rider stores, which should be added to the team's assets. (Each store generated over $3,100,000 in sales.)

I know how much revenue they had in 2010-2011. I was saying it's really unlikely their revenue will be higher after the season they had.

And I haven't seen any proof that the Riders spend millions to keep their status. I don't see anything in their financials that would not have been spent if they were privately owned.

I don't see how you are getting a $16 million figure.

If you have 39 million in revenue and you can run a CFL team for between 15 and 16 million, having a 16 million profit is not far fetched.

But there is a lot more to it than that. I don't see where you are getting "the millions that some teams pour into their operations, just to get rid of some money". Where did they "get rid of" almost $10 million.

And as Saskie mentioned there are a number of ways where the Riders have an advantage over other teams (especially privately owned ones). How many other teams do you think get concessions as part of their lease and only pay $200,000 in rent? Likely answer - 0. Then take into account that the 2010-2011 finacials have higher revenues that usual because of the Riders centennial. Now for 2011-2012 include some severance pay and no home play-off game to the mix as well as a drop in merchandise revenue since there was no special celebration and teams don't usually sell as much merchandise when they are having a bad season.

Agreed ,if it was that easy,you would have people lined up to buy the Argos,or Lions. Not needing one owner owning two teams.

There are people lined up to buy the Lions; the owner just isn't selling.

flutiefan02 has definitely a simplistic approach; he takes all gross revenue and he assumes that the football operations are between 15 and 16 millions,hence his surplus of $16 millions.

Yes,the 2011 gross revenue of the Riders were roughly at $38.1 millions,but these revenue included roughly $10.3 millions in merchandise,$6.0 millions in sponsorship,$3.6 millions in concessions,etc,etc.; these gross revenue were partially offset by expenses of roughly $7.1 in merchandise,$2.0 millions in concessions and $238,010 in sponsorship. Like we say,in order to make ,oney you have to spend money. In flutiefan02 simplistic approach, the gross revenue of roughly $10.3 millions in merchandise is a surplus of $10.3 millions; he forgets the costs of $7.1 millions to purchase the merchandise. Same "raisonnement" with sponsorship,concessions,etc.

For the Riders,the exact excesses of revenue over expenses were at $6,588,980 in 2011 and $3,148500 in 2010. Good results and envy of all other CFL teams but quite different than flutiefan02 numbers. With flutiefan02 numbers, the CFL should pay TSN to broadcast the games rather than the opposite.

The Eskimos had excesses of revenue over expenses of $637,806 in 2011 and $173,813 in 2010,excluding Grey Cup game.

The Bombers had excesses of revenue over expenses of $3,014,592 in 2011 and $697,639 in 2010.

While I don't have numbers/facts to prove what I write, I am under the impression that Toronto,Hamilton,probably Montreal and even BC lost money in 2010 and 2011. For BC, it excludes the Grey Cup game. I do know for a fact that in order to operate without losses all these teams have to average close to 25,000 paying customers per game. It is imperative, for the "survie" of some of these teams, that what TSN pays has to be no less than $30. millions and as much as $36.millions a year once the current agreement expires.-end of 2013- I expect it to be between $30 and $32 millions.

Richard

Your wrong on most counts. every CFL market is different. Up till last year Montreal did over 6 million in Corp support, while some other teams would be lucky to get 1.5 million Montreal also had their own TV deal, that other teams don't have.. They also have the highest ticket prices in the league at over 100 bucks per ticket, and the 100 $ sections are sold out. Look at the Riders finical statement, they pour millions into project's that the team really does not need, just to rid them of some money. same with Edm. Have you seen the Million dollar players lounge the Riders/EDM have. Do you think, if they had private ownership they would be pouring millions into practice facilities and players lounges. As for the Lions, the owner has claimed a profit for the last 3 years. This year they had game day gates of over 2 million for some games. However being privately owner, the practice facilities and players lounge looks like they took over a high school gym.

Lost cause. Too bad you are not the Minister of Finance of Canada. Rather than a $25 billion deficit we wolud have a surplus of no less than $10 billions. You could apply for Financial Consultant of The Tiger-Cats.

Enough said.

Richard

Flutiefan doesn’t seem to understand the difference between revenue and profit.

it comes down to community teams who due to their constitution, can only claim a certain percentage of profit by law. Do you not wonder how both the Riders and Eskimos have over 40 million each in contingency funds of which they don't have to claim as profit, till they spend it. How do you get that amount in the fund on 400,000 in posted profit like the Eskimos claim. You guys are delusional if you think the Riders only made 6 Million.

Yeah, because governments never magically remove deficit now do they. OH wait, almost every election year the deficit that had been on the books vanishes by some magical surplus. Just like the city of Toronto, 3 weeks, went from deficit to 150 million surplus, they did not know they had. now thats enough said!!!

Not sure what the Heritage Trust Fund is used for?; Eskimos do have $9,071,679 in theirs.