Canadians Starting At QB? Let's Get Serious...

One easy way to compare the quality of Canadian and American QBs is to arrange some cross-border match ups between CIS schools and NCAA (or NAIA?) schools, maybe even try it at the high school level (i.e. Canadian high school vs. US high school), alternating between American and Canadian sites from year to year, using the rules of the home team.

They already do this with hockey (but for different reasons).

In a very limited way, this is being done in high schools too, for example, in Raymond, Alberta (see here for story http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/11/02/frid ... e-prairie/ There are some familiar CFL names in it).

Any Division 1 team would likely smack the best CIS team. Maybe if matched up against D1-AA schools it’d be a more even, especially considering there is a lot more players from Division 1-AA in the CFL. The high school level makes a lot more sense IMO actually my football coach from a few years back was telling me a story about how when he coached at St Thomas More high school, they would always set up a game with an American team just for fun. For the American team it actually counted towards seeding for their regular season and it just so happened STM beat this team and the American team wasn’t to happy because it was suppose to be sort of a “cupcake” game for the team. So this does happen more often then you think and the Canadian team doesn’t always get beat down.

This

The main gist of this argument seems to me to be one of "athleticism" vs "training or experience". There have been many examples of good athletes in an unrelated sport given the chance to learn and play football and succeed, just as there have been many extensively trained QBs who have bombed. So why not give a gifted, athletic, yet poorly trained Canadian QB a chance to hold a clipboard for a few years and see if he can cram all the knowledge he would need to play. He might be intelligent enough to do it. After all, this is football, not brain surgery.

Hey you are the one who said: “119 Div 1 teams and not 1 Canadian QB”
I have NOT gone through all 119 teams to check to see if they have them, there could easily be more then just Shutter, but it is not at all surprising that a RS Sophomore only has 1 completion, it should be noted that he is in the running to be Hawaii’s starter as a Junior, the DUI/suspension will hurt those chances but he still has a shot, regardless of that it does not mean he does not have skills which is your entire point I believe.
Just on the Bombers(my team, I know them) Joey Elliot wasn’t a starter until his senior year, yet is a good CFL QB(light years better then Cleo) if not for a freak injury last year he would likely be pushing for a starter gig this year and Justin Goltz is from a Div III school and already has a CFL TD under his belt.

And as you say Cleo Lemon was absolutely horrid yet had 8 NFL starts under his belt.(in addition to his NCAA resume)
One large issue especially at QB is about guys getting opportunities. Maybe Brannigan wasn’t that good as Cleo Lemon, but I would really hope that a guy in his what… 4th pro camp would show better then a guy straight from the college ranks.
How is that shocking at all?
Yet going strictly by stats Lemon did not Blow Brannagan away in the only pre-season game he got it. 3 for 11 for 31 yards and 1 int(Danny) vs. 3 for 10 for 41 yards(lemon)
Considering Brannagan was 2 for 4 for 16 yards in his pre-season contest in 2011 that looks like an improvement and 2 for 4 for 34 yards in his only regular season appearance in 2010.
If fresh out of the CIS is that close to a guy 3 years of NFL experience, I do wonder what it would be like if the kid got some actual reps and the team took the time to develop him.

Again Bombers example, Alex Brink looked horrible in 2010 vs. BC and lit them up in 2011. Why because he progressed, as the Bombers were patient with him.

You are right Huf wouldn’t do that, because he has 2 established CFL all-stars who are NI’s(Cornish and Tsoumpas) as well as several others who are on the verge of being all-stars(like Forzani)… I don’t get the incentive to start rookies over CFL all-stars just because they are imports… but that is because you seem to have the mentality that imports are always better then NIs which is exactly why the ratio was put in. And all of this to start a Sophomore QB with no regular season completions…? What a deal!!!
“Hey Huf, do you want to take out 2 of your league all-stars so you can play a bunch of rookies? all you need to do is start your Sophomore QB!!”
The deal doesn’t make sense regardless of if you add the ratio aspect to it.

Cornish didn’t become the starter due to the ratio, Cornish became the starter because he was better. HOWEVER the only reason Cornish ever made his way onto the Stamps roster IS because of the ratio.
Which is why for QB’s they just need this rule that has been established to get them into TC, to get coaches to see them AND a reserved PR spot that is completely optional for the club to use. It may take a while but eventually it would develop an NI QB who will get playing time, if Sinopoli isn’t already that guy.

Really Huf looks like he wants develop Sinopoli so if the Stamps every get way up or down in a game, Sinopoli has a better chance then KG of going into games if he’s the third string, which could very well allow Sinopoli to move into that 2nd QB spot by the end of the 2013 TC.

You’re comparing a kid just out of college to a guy who has been a professional since 2002. You think those eight extra years of training at the professional level might have something to do with why Lemon was better than Brannigan? Whether Lemon stunk or not he still had training that Brannigan never had. As bad as Lemon was, he still had experience. He knew what it was like to be at a pro training camp and that gives him a leg up, whether you want to believe it or not. He had experience and that is not something you can manufacure.

Name a rookie QB who came into the CFL and took over right away. It doesn’t happen. Even the good, young players take time. You need look no further than the current golden boy of the CFL, Travis Lulay. The Lions let Buck Pierce, Casey Printers and Jarious Jackson (and I think one other player whose name escapes me) start over him when Lulay first got into the league. Why is that? Because he wasn’t ready. The Lions didn’t thrust Lulay into the lineup too soon. When they did put him in, they lived with the mistakes. Now look where he is. If the Lions had said, “Well, he’s not as good as Buck or Casey” after one year of him sitting on the practice roster, where would he be right now? Surely he wouldn’t be the reigning MOP and Grey Cup MVP.

Now, I’m not trying to say that Brannigan would have been Lulay, but the point is that even really good players take time. I’m also pointing out how utterly silly it is to compare a rookie to a veteran. If that is main crux of your argument, then there is no point in even discussing this anymore. If you think that rookies need to be immediately better than everyone on the depth chart ahead of them, then no evidence is going to change your opinion or even allow you to see the merit in the opposing viewpoint.

Lulay got playing time as a rookie, started nine games in his second year and was the MVP in his third year. That’s the kind of development you’d expect from a young QB that actually has the talent and ability to be a pro QB. Think Sinopoli will start nine games this year? I’d be shocked if he even makes nine pass attempts.

I often wonder how many potential Russ Jacksons have been overlooked by much the same attitude we read about here

really ? honest? thats why Canadiab kids who play QB change to other positions? to be able tp play in cfl, they can play other positions but not QB?

They change positions because they’re not good enough to play QB at a pro level. This isn’t something that only happens to the hard-done-by Canadian QBs. Antwan Randal-El had a great college career as QB at IU, but why did he only get a few opportunities to QB as a pro? Incidentally, Randal-El has the highest passer rating in NFL history of anyone with at least 20 completions. Matt Jones was a three year starter at Arkansas, why did he have to switch to WR instead of being a pro QB? Hines Ward was a good QB at UGa but he switched to WR and went on to have a hall of fame career in the NFL. Did Ward have to switch from QB because he’s Korean?

At least those QBs mentioned got the chance to show they supposedly weren’t good enough to succeed in the pro ranks or was it a numbers thing. The Canadian QBs don’t get a chance and are instantly told to seek another position…When you have a plethora to choose from, it’s easy to miss a keeper. This is why some come to the CFL and become stellar QBs, some almost right away, others take a few years. Those few years could easily be given to a home grown boy. AND if Ward was Korean, that would have been another reason to not let him throw the ball. He wouldn’t have had this mystical-magical training you can only get if you’re American born and bred. Imagine the furor if all the Can. NHL teams said only Canadian born goalies can play up here because we train them better right from age 5.

Affirmitive Action it is....Shocking how law very from nation to nation

Is a “Hire American” program at an American company Affirmative Action? I know when I worked on contract in the States a few years ago, the company who hired me had to prove to the American government that there were no Americans available who could do the job.

I wonder if the Government of Canada would step in to protect these Canadian jobs if the league eliminated the import rule, which today protects at least some of them. They have done it in other industries, so why not sports?

So why stop at just Canadian QBs? Let’s make it all positions - - put in a rule that anyone playing in the CFL can only be a Canadian citizen. Get rid of all the American players in the CFL. That should REALLY insrease the interest level.

And don’t just limit it to industry and sports…no more American movies to be played in Canadian theatres, only Canadian made CBC films. And no more American music to be played on Canadian radio stations, only Anne Murray and Gord Lightfoot.

The use of American players is a part of the CFL as is the use of Canadians, It was decided a long time ago, and there has been a good balance for the CFL .To bring the level of play to the same as N F L . Without high draft prospects from NCAA. The Issue of giving Canadian Q.Bs a CFL Aided training for entery level Ops is important to the fabric of a financialy successfull CFL and maintain the level of play standard. There can be a financial windfall if per say _the Argos field a Canadian QB who can produce.

No, I like the import the way it is - with the exception of the QB position being excluded.

And ever heard of the CRTC Canadian content rule? It doesn’t say no foreign music on the radio; it just says that a certain percentage must be Canadian. Why is it in place? Because broadcasters before that weren’t playing much Canadian music. Forcing them to play some Canadian music opened the door for Canadian groups that might never have received any airplay.

But imagine if the CRTC rule excluded, say, solo female singers for some reason. All other types of music had to follow the rule, just not solo females. We might never have heard of Anne Murray, Joni Mitchell, Buffy Sainte-Marie, Jann Arden, k d lang,… (Ok, we also might not have heard of Celine Dion, so maybe a fair trade-off? :wink: ) How is this different from excluding QBs from the import rule?

All I see is naysayers putting these guys down, yet for years the under 19 Canadian QB,s have been better than their american counterparts in the international competitions playing 4 down ball. For crying out loud give your guys a fair shot and open your freaking minds!!!

Are you sure about that?

Why didn’t USC bring in a Canadian QB instead of Matt Barkley? Why didn’t Baylor bring in a Canadian QB instead of RG3? Seems really strange that none of the Canadian QBs that are “better” get recruited to the NCAA. I’m really interested to hear your explanation on that.

Did all the Canadian QBs turn down NCAA scholarships because they wanted to play in the CIS instead? Is there a global conspiracy involving the NCAA, CFL and NFL to suppress the Canadian QB?

No conspiracy needed. All it may mean is that the US colleges aren’t actively scouting Canadian high schools for QBs. And in a case like Will Finch, who arguably played at least as well as his American counterpart in the International Bowl this year, by the time they do notice one at an international event, it may be too late to check them out for that year. Would they be able to find useful game film on him? Have all the spots on the team already been filled with players already scouted and recruited? Is there any scholarship money left?

Or maybe there’s a general attitude at US colleges that because Canadian QBs don’t have the same years of training that their American counterparts have had, they’ll have trouble making the leap to the faster game at the NCAA level. :wink:

American QB’s on average have way more years of experience coming out of college than their Canadian counterparts.

that’s the biggest reason alone!

how many Canadian QB’s have 10-12 years of playing experience before they graduated from College football?

not very many at all…

with Minor football becoming bigger in the past 10 years, eventually you will begin to see more players coming out of College football with 10-11 years of playing time… assuming they start playing at age 9 or 10.

still… when you look at the sheer #'s… there are 3x as many American players that colleges can sort through and decide on than there are Canadian kids…

so that Canadian QB has to be one hell of a great QB in order to get noticed.