Canadians Starting At QB? Let's Get Serious...

You of all people are going to criticize others for having opinions? Why don't we comb through your vast posting history and see if you have ever made a statement that differs from a head coach or front office. If coaches were infallible, as you seem to assert, then players would be given one shot to make a team. We've never seen a guy get cut at one team's training camp and find a home elsewhere and succeed. Not once. That has never happened in the history of professional football. :roll:

C'mon, dude, this entire forum is filled with people questioning the moves of the head coach or GM; it wouldn't be sports without it. Using the "the coach gets paid to do this so therefore he knows more than you" argument is lame and lazy.

There might not be a Canadian QB good enough to start tomorrow, but that doesn't mean there won't be one at some point. Ten year ago, no one would have envisioned even one Canadian QB being on a roster. It might take awhile, but I can see the day when there is a Canadian starting at QB in the CFL.

From what I've seen of Quinlan's play I don't believe he has the arm strength to be a pro QB. Maybe I missed all the games where he was making throws on a rope to the wideside. Bigger question is going to be is if he can read a pro defence. How many NFL calibre defenders did Quinlan go up against each week? I can only recall one. You may remember Fred Plesius, a LB, with a pick six on Quinlan in the Vanier.

Plesius has pro level ability. Now imagine a team with three LBs of his ability or better. And five guys in the secondary with his ability or better. That's what it's going to be like in the CFL. Not quite like taking on Waterloo or UofT. Quinlan is this year's Canadian QB saviour. Much like Danny Brannigan was - - remember his performance as an Argo? It was deer meets headlights. What about Tommy Drunkison? Eric Glavic?

There's 119 Division 1 football teams in the NCAA and 123 in 1-AA. Why are there ZERO Canadian QBs playing for any of those 242 schools? If the Canadian QBs aren't good enough to get a US scholarship how do you suddenly expect them to be better than all those NCAA QBs?

If you'd rather avoid this question, I understand. It's not easy to face reality.

Shouting always makes your point more cogent :roll:

Maybe there are no Canadian QBs in the Division 1 NCAA because they don't effectively scout Canadian schools. Remember that Steve Nash was completely passed over by all U.S. schools until Dick Davey was the only one to request footage of him even though "It didn't take a Nobel Prize winner to figure out this guy's pretty good."

Similarly, Calgarian and Super Bowl MVP Mark Rypien had to move to Washington to go to high school so he could get noticed by recruiters.

There are many reasons why some players get chances and others don't. It doesn't always have to do with talent.

Rypien moved to Washington when he was around 7. Would he have even played football when he was still in Canada? Any biographical information I can find on him is silent on football experience in Canada, and only mentions involvement in football from high school onward.

Regardless of his age when his family move to Washington, do you really think scholarship offers would have "poured in" if he had remained in Calgary? I'll bet his parents knew by the time he was 7 that he was a budding athlete, though it's definitely presumptuous of me to assert they moved to Washington for that reason. In any case, it certainly didn't hurt his career chances.

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I'll still argue that recruiting from Canadian schools is spotty at best.

Do you think he would have been good enough to earn scholarship offers had he stayed in Canada? I would argue probably not, because our youth system is as spotty as American recruiting from Canada.

And Harris is in the starting RB position in BC because they had/have a forward-thinking Head Coach/GM that knows there are hidden talents starting in the low-profile CJFL that deserve a shot. Was Harris a waste of a roster spot? Similarly for any other position, including QB.

10 years ago there wasn't but 15 years ago I believe there was .... all i know is a Canadian QB actually started a game for Hamilton a while ago.. due to injuries however.

Look at all those college rejects who come from down south with gaudy credentials. Put them into a CFL game and they do ... what exactly? Nothing. They hold clipboards for 3+ years ... and most of them still do nothing. What a lofty standard our Canadian QBs have to aspire to. I sure would like our guys to be good enough, one day, to get paid to be third-stringers who mess the bed routinely in game situations. Such American superiority.

Biggest challenge for a QB coming into the CFL or the NFL is reading the defence. It's taken for granted the QB will have adequate arm strength to throw to the wideside, and enough accuracy to zip a pass in when a receiver has a half step on coverage. If the arm strength and accuracy aren't there, then forget it. Doesn't matter how well you read coverage if you're not able to make the throws.

Over the past decade or so we've seen Calvillo, Ricky Ray, Durant, Lulay and Burris all become MVP calibre QBs. Maybe you can tell me which Canadian QBs you think might have been in that class if only they were given a "fair shot" to start? Tommy Drunkison? Danny Brannigan? Mike Faulds?

having a QB sit at 3rd string for his entire career is not an uncommon thing.. in BOTH leagues.

many times a guy will make the squad but never see the field. and then in his 2nd or 3rd year gets cut because they don't see him developing into a backup or starter and find someone else they feel is better.

happens everywhere..

so the Canadians likely are seen as inferior for the most part to these American counterparts.

haha, Just for the record. Using AC as an example of an QB who picked up the CFL game is a horrible horrible example.
yes he has become a Hall of Famer and the all-time leading passer, but then you are completely glossing over his first 5 years in the league before things finally clicked, his first year was absolutely horrid.
Oh and on using the Justin Goltz example for the Bombers, you missed how Goltz was in his second year with the team and just happened to be forced into the game VS. TO as the third stringer and thew a TD pass. had he not done that then sadly the Bombers may have brought Bishop back(cringe)

But you show examples of the "successes" of American QB's, without the MASSIVE number of failures. How many times have there been these guys with impressive stats come north and fail, Mike Quinn, Shaun King, Cleo Lemon.
That isn't to say NI QB's should be guaranteed a roster spot or anything like that, but there should be allowances to help let them get a look.
Step 1 - has already been done this year by the CFL allowing teams to bring CIS QB's to camp and not have them count towards the amount of guys in camp, this should at the very least help the competition in the next CIS season.
Step 2 - expand practice rosters from 7 spots, to 10 and make it so the extra 3 spots are all Canadian and that the 10th spot(if used) is specifically for a NI QB. This allows teams the OPTION of having a NI QB around. meaning if a guy like Graves, Quinlan or another shows potential he can be kept around. This would be great if done in combination with if CIS guys with eligibility are sent back to finish their final season their rights are retained by the CFL club(if drafted, along with them to not count towards the following years TC count) this allows teams to keep that player on the PR for until the players CIS season is to start so they can get CFL coaching/training and then play a full CIS season.
Step 3 - likely a CFLPA-CBA issue try to get a 3rd pre-season game added, at the teams option(so teams would be allowed to opt out if they found it costly or w/e) and allow for rookie camp to be a full week(if it can't atm) BUT require that in this first game only players who are CFL rookies to first year vets are allowed to play(first year vet is not the same as sophomore) this would allow an increased chance for NI QB's as well as all other NI's to show their stuff in game, it would still be a pre-season game yes, but if a guy can show he can do it in a pre-season game then they are more likely to get further looks.

That solves the issues of players getting a look in the CFL, the next changes required must come from amateur football which the CFL should try to encourage.
A huge one would to start is to increase the number of games played in the CJFL and CIS. Ideally an increase to 10 regular season games, and the removal of bye weeks for all even team conferences(for the CIS that's all conferences but Ontario now) the season can be extended into late August, by doing so this should allow more coaching in those initial 3-4 as well as for a 4 year CIS starting basically adding another year of experience in terms of regular season games played.

If those are done then the gap will be closed in terms of training and CIS QB's will get a chance to show what they can do.

Maybe they will never receive a chance to start, but at least they will be given a fair shot and the entire debate of if they can do it will be done. Add in that the remaining changes required from the CFL will not be costly, especially as ALL costs are optional to the club, or affect the quality of games played.

I personally believe that a NI QB can start, but I also know how long it takes to develop a QB properly in the CFL, it normally takes 3-4 years for a guy to develop from 3rd stringer to starter(this is for NCAA kids, Tate was in his 5th season last year, Lulay took over part time in his second, Durant part time in his 3rd) so of course no Canadian QB is ready to be a CFL starter as there is only 1 Canadian QB currently active with 1 year of experience under his belt. For Sinopoli this year his job is to push for playing time and try to nudge Glenn away from the #2 role.(a loft goal, but if he does push in TC there are $$ in favor of Brad) if Sinopoli makes it through TC which he has a very good chance too he will get some playing time this year and continue his development that Huf is committed to.

oh and btw,
Cayman Shutter - Hawaii QB, born in Regina and is expected to be eligible for the 2013 draft(as per Forde)... apparently some Canadians are in the NCAA at QB.

If you'd seen any of the Argos training camp or pre season you'd understand that Chip Lemon was light years better than Brannigan. And I rank Lemon as one of the ten worst CFL QBs over the past decade - - so where does that leave Brannigan?

I stand by my original suggestion - - any team that starts a NI QB be allowed to start imports and every single other position.

I'm certain that there's no Canadian QB that's remotely good enough to start this year, just as there hasn't been for the past decade. So there has to be an huge incentive - - come on Calgary, I DARE you to start Sinopoli. You can have imports at every other position, just start Sinopoli at QB. You can't imagine how much I want to see a Canadian QB get a full season to start, just so it will finally shut the apologists up. Because you and I both know what the results would be after 18 games of Sinopoli starting. Think Hufnagel would do it? Not a chance.

One completion over three years - - a franchise QB like that will be first overall for sure! Too bad about the drunk driving...he had a real shot at moving up from clipboard holder to being the towel holder this year.

It is very encouraging to see the effort being made by CFL teams in correcting the situation that excluded Canadian kids from being able to have an opportunity to play QB in the CANADIAN FL.!!

As posted above, it comes down to some effort to develope the ones that Have the natural talent, throwing away a player who has natural ability just because they didnt come out of ncaa is just wrong and deprives Canadian football fans of the chance to witness a players developement.

Congrats to Dan Brannagan for a stellar CIS career AND breaking the stigma barrier and opening the door to future Canadian QB,s in the CFL!!

Canadian QBs have always had the opportunity to play in the CFL. It's having the talent to play the position that they've been lacking.

I agree they have always had the opportunities to try out for CFL teams, and their natural abilities (talent) are often enough to get them those opportunities. It's the training that falls short. All things considered, Canadians are just as talented as any other nationality. Most just don't have the same level of training.

A great example of why this is true is with hockey players. Still to this day Canadians dominate in the NHL. Is it because they are better athletes than Europeans or Americans? No, it's because they have the highest level of training available, pretty much anywhere they live in Canada. Similarly, the "Own the Podium" program cleared the decks for Canadian Olympic athletes so they could focus on their training. The results were spectacular.

It's not so much the talent alone as the combination of raw talent and training.

I don't get it. If American QBs are so clearly superior, why do so many of them flame out up here after 3-5 years of holding a clipboard? We can't even try one Canadian for that length of time and see it he can't do better than Ted White, Stanley Jackson, Mike McMahon, Tee Martin, Cody Pickett, etc. etc.?

I'm with you on this one. I don't understand why Canadian kids get one or two years before they're released when Americans get half a decade. And I don't want to hear the naysayers with that "they just aren't talented enough" stuff because that's bull. You're telling me, based on the video evidence, that Kyle Quinlan isn't as talented as Dalton Bell or Timmy Chang?