Canadians Starting At QB? Let's Get Serious...

It’s been over 40 years since the CFL had a legit Canadian QB starting and that streak certainly won’t end this year. Sinopoli might get another turn as the clipboard holder in Calgary, but that’s as close as it’s going to get. Quinlan had a gutsy performance in the Vanier, but can anyone really fool themselves into thinking he’s a potential starter?

If the CFL changes the import ratio to have Canadian QBs count against the NI number, it would be completely pointless. Every CFL team would have a Canadian QB on the roster knowing full well the 3rd string QB is about as likely to take actual game reps as the mascot is. It'd just mean teams would only need to have 19 NIs who actually get playing time along with one other Canadian to stand beside the Gatorade cooler.

It’d be a huge mistake for the CFL to try and mandate teams to carry a Canadian QB. That’d be like saying all airlines must have at least one pilot who is legally blind, or that all fire departments must have at least one firefighter who is a paraplegic. What’s the point? QB is the most important position in football - - so how could a coach be expected to put his fate in the hands of a QB that’s physically incapable of doing the job?

Notice how things unfolded last year in Calgary when Drew Tate missed five weeks. Did Hufnagel move Sinopoli up the depth chart to be the back up? Not on your life. The Stamps immediately brought in CFL wash-out Mike Bishop to be the second string guy. If Sinopoli can’t even be trusted to run short yardage what chance does he ever have at being the starting QB? Same thing happened in Winnipeg - - Brokeback Buck went down and the Bombers signed Bishop. But Winnipeg moved up 3rd stringer Justin Goltz to be the back up instead of Bishop.

Some will try and argue we’ll never know how great a Canadian QB can be until one gets a couple years to be the starter. Sure. If the Blue Jays roll out a fat guy from the local Slo-Pitch team to be their starting pitcher, does anyone need to see 9 innings to realize a 55MPH fastball isn’t going to cut it in the Big Leagues?

My suggestion to settle this debate is for the CFL to implement a new rule that any team with a starting Canadian QB can have all imports starting at every other position. Surely that would be enough enticement for at least a couple teams to go with even the most mediocre Canadian QB as their starter. Calgary and Montreal could recreate the 1995 Baltimore Stallions - - all they’d need to do is have Sinopoli and Quinlan calling the signals. But my guess is there’s no way any team would do it. And maybe then the apologists would finally accept the reality that Canadian QBs just aren’t good enough.

With your attitude , it will never happen. It is this type of negative thinking that hurts any Canadian born Q.B. from getting a fair shot. :thdn: No one truly knows how good they are until they go to training camp , so don’t cut them before they even take their first snap at training camp. :lol:

The main issue is Canadian QBS are so far behind the American QB, in almost every aspect of the position. Money,training,games played, coaching and training facilities . A lot of our best pure athletes choose hockey or Baseball. In the States, football is in number one. The only way the CFL gets a Canadian starting at QB is if they leave for a U.S program and that program has patience with him.

The arguement about Canadian QBs not getting a "fair shot" is laughable. If the QB from York or UofT doesn't get signed to a CFL contract are you going to try and say they weren't given a "fair shot"? What if you decided to try out at QB for the Argos and didn't get an invite to camp - - do you ignore the fact that you're not talented enough to play QB or blame it on not getting a "fair shot"?

Except in rare instances of coaching incompetence - - ie. Toronto taking 18 games to finally realize Chip Lemon was a complete failure at QB - - most teams can determine a hopeless QB pretty quickly. When passes longer 25yds are hanging in the air like rainbows, that's a pretty good indication the QB has no chance as a pro.

Area_31: Like others, I do not accept your attitude which, if accepted, would exclude a Canadian CIS qb from going to one of our training camps. Hopefully a NI QB will eventually find a CFL spot- Meanwhile, they should not be prohibited from attending a CFL pre season training camp.

That is still not going to help our Canadian QBS starting . Our QB,s are so far behind when competing against American QB'S ,they don't stand much of a chance to gain a number one or two spot. We need to start in high school ,providing better coaching and training for our kids. It's too late when in a pro camp,they will never catch up.

We can talk about the American kids having better coaching intill were blue in the face. The point is their have been many Canadians QB's who have the talent(accuracy, arm strength, etc) they just havents gotten the chance to compete. "If a rookie from Notre Dame makes a mistake, 'He's learning.' If a Canadian does the same, 'He can't play.' " That's a quote from Gulio Caravatta who summed up the perception coaches have about Canadian quarterbacks.

Some of you guys talk about Canadian QBs as if they don't even know which way to point the ball. It's kind of pathetic really. Yet, a young QB (such as Will Finch) can go up against American peers, in the U.S., playing American rules, and triumph. Still some claim they "are so far behind when competing against American QB'S ,they don't stand much of a chance." That's proven baloney at the under 19 stage.

Whenever you talk in gross generalities like this your argument begins to look pretty silly. The fact is that there needs to be incentives for Canadian QBs. They need to know that they'll get a fair shot to make it or not. They're really no different than any other athlete from any place. At the pro level they need time to develop of course, just like any other rookie out of college. Most pro QBs in the CFL don't become starters over night. It usually takes them at least a couple of years of development. In fact, there are many times more American QBs who will never get a chance at the pros than there are Canadians who will never get the chance. It has nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with circumstances and opportunities.

There will be another starting Canadian QB in the CFL eventually. That day will come when, given the chance, a Canuck out performs an import. It's going to happen one day, and probably sooner than some think — as long as they are given a chance to compete and not saddled with presumptions about their nationality and level of training. Presumption about the talent of your opponent is what loses games. Just ask the Americans.

The Canadian QBS themselves admit they are behind their American counterparts in development , some believe there is some great conspiracy of Canadian kids getting screwed. As of right now, the Canadian football system isn't good enough ,until that changes we wont be close to having a Canadian kid having a legit shot at starting at QB.

I still say, just replace the 3 QB allowance with 2 non-import and 1 import slots That way, there is ample reason to have at least one Canadian QB in your lineup for running plays and conversely trick passing plays and you have a the same slightly more non-import ratio that already exists.

What I find frustrating about all these discussions on Canadian QBs is that people seem to divide themselves into two camps. One is the camp whose opinion is roughly that Canadian QBs will never be that good because they're coming out of a weak development system, so it's not worth the bother. The other camp is the one whose opinion is roughly that Canadian QBs will never be that good because they're coming out of a weak development system, so we should find some way compel CFL teams to give them a chance.

What frustrates me about this is that, while both sides seem to understand that development is weak, neither side seems to want wants to change that. Numerous times, I've brought up the idea that, rather than adjusting the CFL rule book to compensate for these deficiencies, we should be focusing on trying to reduce or eliminate them. Or in other words, instead of giving them a spot on the team, we should be trying to find ways to give them the tools they need so they can earn a spot on the team. Almost every time I bring it up, though, people respond either with reasons why it can't be done or with pure silence, either defeatism or apathy.

To me, it's a puzzling reaction to say that on the one hand, there is a Canadian out there who could be a starting CFL QB (thus suggesting Canadians are just as good at football as Americans), but then to say that on the other hand we could never have a development system that could produce one without special treatment from the CFL (thus suggesting Canadians could never be as good at football as Americans). It's contradictory.

I'm fairly certain there are Canadian kids out there who have the talent to become modern day Russ Jacksons, and I'm confident in my opinion that, if we really wanted to, we could improve our development system so that non-import QBs would be just as prepared as import QBs when the time comes to start a CFL career, and that they would get noticed by CFL teams even though they're Canadian. Actually, what I'm more worried about is that the efforts would prove so successful that we'd end up losing them to the NFL.

In any case, it's my opinion that, instead of concocting ways to change the CFL rule book so that teams have incentives to carry non-import QBs, we should be devoting our creative efforts to finding ways to give better training to more kids. There's no better incentive than pure talent.

Well, the fundamental thing with this is CIS attendance is a fraction of NCAA attendance. That is what drives high end development programs.

I think the issue might not be what we think it is... Always about the better american counterpart... Almost everytime we have a new american QB come up and compete for a spot, he is a few years removed univeristy. ALready bounced around the NFL or some other Pro/semi league in the states for a couple years. Its not very often that the CFL gets a pure rookie QB straight out of an american univeristy (although i know there are some exceptions, such as winnipeg and hamilton over the years) SO when a Canadian QB comes in to compete, its against guys with Pro experience alreasdy. SO if there was a spot, this would ensure there is at least a few years of Pro training and practice to make the competition fair.

Canadian Ryder Hesjedal just won a major cycling race in europe. We have produced some of the top baseball players, some elite basketball players, soccer players, etc. Heck, if we look at the CFL itself we find some of the BEST players in the league are Canadians and some of them developed in CIS. It's pretty weak to simply say Canada cannot produce a QB or that Canadian QBs are not good enough. It's much more complicated than that, as PiCat has indicated.

To me, the fact remains that even if there's a Canadian QB good enough to play in the CFL, he is not likely to get a shot. You can say otehrwise all you want, the fact remains until QBs are counted as part of the ratio, teams have no reason to even contemplate dressing a N/I QB. I also don't agree that teams will simply put an inferior Canadian QB at 3rd string, in order to dress a more competent import elsewhere on the roster. No good team will ever do this. This is a fact. Very often the 3rd string position is reserved for a young, up and coming QB that teams want to potentially develop into the next star QB (2nd string is usually a veteran journeyman type). Teams are not going to sacrifice missing on Travis Lualy, Drew Tate, Darian Durant, etc. to keep an extra american who will likely only be used on special teams.

We can keep making excuses as to why there can't be a Canadian player starting at QB, but to me that's just pointless. Yes, it's true the vast majority of Canadian QBs are not even close to being CFL players, but that doesn't mean there isn't 1 or 2. In fact, I predict we aren't too far away from a canadian QB starting a game (maybe Sinopoli?)

Using universities as the primary development system for professional athletes seems to be an almost purely an American phenomenon. CIS football is, as far as I've been able to discover, the only notable exception (some CIS hockey players do go pro, but the only ones I know of are ex-CHLers, so it's probably not the CIS that got them there). So, unless we insist that we develop football players using the same model as Americans, this doesn't have to be a barrier to a better system.

If we do insist on copying the American model, though, then I suppose you might be right. But I think this has less to do with attendance than it does with the fact that the CIS, in my opinion, strikes a better balance between academics and athletics than the NCAA does. It doesn't help that there is less money available to fund CIS programs, but even if there were more money, CIS schools are more limited than NCAA schools in the sizes of athletic scholarships that they can give (it won't even cover tuition at most schools) and teams can only require something like 10 hours per week to training. So the CIS will always be limited in terms of the quality of the athletes they produce.

But as I said, we don't have to use the NCAA model. Andrew Harris, BC's running back, is a non-import playing at a typically import position, and he came out of the CJFL, not the CIS.

Also, if we really, really want our athletes to also be university graduates, we (well, not you and me, but you know what I mean) could train players with the purpose of getting them scholarships at NCAA schools. This is done in other sports. Many Canadians go south to play NCAA hockey, and sub-AAA teams use to promote themselves. Niagara Academy (in Ontario) does this for tennis. According to their website, more than 85% of the Ontario Mariners baseball team have received scholarships for American schools. Of course, I'd rather they train here in Canadian football.

Actually, Niagara Academy is starting up a 4-down American football program with that exact purpose. It kind of irks me that nobody's ever tried to do the same for Canadian football. Although it's likely going to be a small program and therefore won't make a huge dent in other programs, it could validate the perceived dichotomy of "American football = good, Canadian football = bad" when even the elite Canadian players are abandoning the Canadian game for the American one. The school is also planning doing some things I wish more Canadian schools would do, such as play some cross border games.

you guys..... :roll:

you're truly trying to argue your opinion vs a Professional Coach who's been doing this sort of thing for much of their lives?

I think I'd trust the HC of the team over your guy's opinions.

there is no way at this rate if you were to give ANY of them a fair chance against the Americans currently in the system that they will beat them out.

ALL 8 American starters in the league today are better than any Canadian QB today.

at this point there are no Canadian QB's good enough to start in the CFL.

I don't often agree with what you have to say, but you've summed things up very well here.

But forget about the professional coaches and GMs in the CFL and NFL not rostering any Canadian QBs - - why are there no NCAA schools with Canadian QBs? If there's not any Canadian QBs that are good enough to get a scholarship to even a lower level D-1 school, how does anyone expect these same also rans to suddenly be pro-grade QBs after five years in the CIS?

Why are there no Canadian QBs in Division 1 football?

NCAA schools have no problem with recruiting Canadians for all other positions - - why not at QB?

Are all the Canadian QBs turning down scholarship offers from teams like Alabama and LSU because they'd rather play in the OUA than in the SEC?

Are all the Canadian QBs just not getting a "fair shot" for a scholarship from NCAA programs?

Or is there a conspiracy through all levels of football to suppress the Canadian QB?

A "fact" according to whom? How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you make statements like that?

Teams will just leave their development QBs on the PR and have the Canadian QB stand beside the water cooler as the 3rd string.

All of the negative posts about Canadian Q.B.s are just proving my point. :roll:

Thank you. :smiley:

Training camp hasn't even started and many here have already given up on any Canadian born Q.B.s before they even take their first snap :thdn:

This is just like when you go to a job interview and the interviewer says ,
" we can't hire you , you have no experience "
and then you think to yourself ;
" how can I get experience , if I can't get a job "

I am not saying that there are a huge number of great Canadian born Q.B.s out there but Quinlan is far better than CHRIS FLYNN was and he has the size , speed and arm that is perfect for the CFL.

How many people have actually seen QUINLAN play?

Doesn't he have to play against some of the great players in the CIS who are signed to NFL teams?

He also doesn't have to a just to the Canadian game. :thup:

  1. We are not talking about a U OF T / Q.B. Have you even seen , QUINLIN , play?

  2. LEMON , was a former NFL / Q.B. and was given many chances by an American coach.

  3. All of you posts here PROVE that YOU wouldn't give any Canadian Q.B.s a " fair shot "

  4. You have NO IDEA how any player will do until you play them in an actual game.

Just like RICKY WILLAMS was going to break CFL all rushing records and he did almost nothing.
Just like the many HEISMAN Trophy winners who did nothing in the CFL when they came to play here.
There are many , many other examples.

  1. What is " laughable " is some people's low self esteem.