Calvillo Stunk Up the Joint

And now for something completely predictable...

Well hey...that was one awful game by just about everyone.
But as always...the buck stops....at the quarterback.
Poor passes, poor reads...poor decisions...
It was one of those games

There's no question AC has been "hit and miss" since the injury.
But the combination of "clinch-hangover" and AC being off his game is brutal

It would be nice to see the Alouettes think of bringing in someone else
Before the game is completely out of reach
..and everyone one else has gone home and is snoozing in bed already.

:thdn: :thdn: :thdn:

I know i’m in a private party here but…

Adrian Mac sure looked shaky as well…lost

One of those games…

Not sure what you mean but private party...
But you have every right to your opinion

AD didn't look exactly happy out there
If you stripped off the veneer of "coached" answers
Got him drunk and asked him,

"So Adrian...after that great performance against Hamilton a while back
It's back to short yardage and junk-time handoffs.
Then...when it's obviously not AC's night...they wait 'til the Als are down 30 points
Before they bring you in.
Then...on your first series you throw a 35 yarder....move the team down the field
Only to get a no-call on an obvious pass interference.
Not to mention all those drops...Oy Veh!!!"

What do you think he'd say?

My point is...at some point the Alouettes, if they want to have a decent backup that actually spells Anthony on the bad nights...they're going to have to bring him in before the game is out of reach.
As things stand, bringing McPherson in is the same as saying, "The game's over guys...stop trying."
So I'm not so much blaming Whitaker and Hawkins and whoever for dropping balls at that point in the game...as I am the whole "mystique de Calvillo" which seems undeserved considering his history.

If fans, players and coaches would simply acknowledge his fallibility...there'd be some room for others to come in and take over on a bad night. It might be better for AC in the long run...and would probably be better for McPherson or Leak...but would definitely be better for the Alouettes.

Well, Senior, AC stunk the joint out, but the rest of the team - particularly the secondary - did as well!!! The O actually moved the ball well in the 1st quarter, but RZ production continues to be a problem. Had they scored on those first 2-3 possessions, it would have been a different ball game, maybe with the same score, but in our favour. The Baggs' fumble recovery for a TD turned everything upside-down for the Als.

Time to put this one on "delete" and come out hungry next week against the Argos.

You're right jkm, putting that one on 'delete' is about the best we can do with it. No one covered themselves in glory last night (save for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, who played a whale of a game, we must give them credit).

I'm not sure I'd agree that AC "stunk". . . but he sure wasn't dominant . . . although 18 out of 26 which is 69% with no TDs and one INT isn't really really bad, it sure isn't up to his standards.

McPherson came in mid third quarter so he had lots of time to shake things up and I was hoping that he'd at least get us back into the game, not that I had any realistic hope of winning at that point.

Sadly, the malaise that afflicted everyone else didn't miss him either, as instead of giving us the spark we needed, he was underthrowing and overthrowing, and ended up completing only 7 out of 16 for a 43% completion average. . .those are Michael Bishop numbers minus the interceptions !

You can go right through the lineup and be critical of pretty much everyone. . . so really what's the point.

You're right, let's hit 'delete' and get ready for a back to back with the Argos. . .

First game I miss in six or seven years. I guess I didn't miss much. But just looking at the score there had to be a lot more going wrong than just AC having a bad game...

I’ve rad the ‘LIVELY’ debate on this in this forum about why they never have given time to others beside Calvillo.

My opinion, is that you have the best CFL team in the last decade led by the best QB in the same period by a large margin. Thoroughbreds need to run and if you go against that you break their spirit.

There are very very few examples on both sides of the border who would ever go against the dominant QB in their league on a dominant team and pull them against their wishes. This type of QB is a coach maker , not the other way around. Elway, Marino, Manning . When you want to change that up you release them outright-Montana, Favre, Unitas in days gone by

The only top level dominant team that went in the face of this was Edmonton with Wilkinson giving away to Moon. But Wilkinson was a different type of horse. Far different and he knew his true place.

Allowing any sort of QB controversy to develop, before it’s time, with a great QB is a team killer. Ask BC with Dickenson Printers of 2004.

Not wanting to extend the debate or be yelled at by Senior, just stating my views.

While watching the Edmonton victory this evening, it was interesting to view the excitement of the ESKS starting with the QBing of Zabransky, as Rick Ray watched from the sidelines. Thinking of the Alouette debacle on friday evening and, wittnessing Calvillo's inability to lead the team to a single touchdown, I began thinking today that we are wittnessing the end of an era in which these two QB's, demonstrated excellence from the QB position. They were rivals, both competing for the all star position as QB and, played against each other for the Grey Cup. While AC won most of the accolades, I thought RR was the better QB. He stood toe to toe with AC with respect to passing, but RR did win some games with his feet and, proved to be the better QB in their Grey Cup match. There is a certain sadness here, as always when the greats begin to wind down!!!!!

AC, over more than a decade, has provided first-class, all-star performance, year in, year out and the stats are there to prove it. He is, without a doubt, a HOF prospect. He may yet shatter records that may never be beaten unless an equally talented QB comes along; one who, like AC, has longevity in the CF. Has AC had off games? You bet! What QB hasn't? However, the quality of being able to rebound season afeter season is what has made this QB great. Having said that, however, AC is 38; he may choose to return for one more year or not and yes, there have been some "chinks" in his armour noted of late - that is to be expected.

There is no QB controvesy that I know of other than certain individuals making one. Most of us on this forum would love to see AD have more meaningful reps under center, and not just in garbage time. AD appears to have the right stuff, but, like AC needs time to develop his skills and that can only happen in game situations. His time will come, other things being equal (i.e. he decides to stay, AC retires this year or next...etc.).

As to your other point, Flag, you are quite correct. The great CFL and NFL teams have all been led by their no. 1 QB. There have been some exceptions here and there with a dual QB system, but that has been the exception, not the rule. Football, unlike other team sports, requires a field general, namely the QB. He is the de facto leader of the pack and inspires confidence. That in turn has a ripple effect not merely on O, but the entire team! While AD has definitely shown some sparks of brilliance, I don't believe he is at that point yet. To be sure, as AC goes, so does the team.

This Friday's loss can be summend up as a lack of focus, lack of execution, sealing 1st place with 3 games to go...etc. I sincerely hope they address these issues for the next 2 games.

Tout en regardant la victoire Edmonton ce soir, il était intéressant de voir l'excitation de la ESKS en commençant par le QBing de Zabransky, comme Rick Ray a regardé du banc de touche. Pensée de la débâcle Alouette le vendredi soir et, wittnessing incapacité Calvillo à mener l'équipe à un touché unique, j'ai commencé à penser aujourd'hui que nous sommes wittnessing la fin d'une ère dans laquelle ces deux QB, fait preuve d'excellence de la position de QB. Ils étaient rivaux, les deux concurrents pour la position de l'étoile tout comme QB et, a joué les uns contre les autres pour la Coupe Grey. Bien que AC a remporté la plupart des accolades, je pensais que RR a été le meilleur QB. Il se coude à coude avec l'AC à l'égard de passage, mais RR ne gagner des matchs avec ses pieds et, s'est avéré être le meilleur QB dans leur match de la Coupe Grey. Il ya une certaine tristesse, comme

Maybe it's cause I feel spoiled by these guys but when I saw the score I chuckled. I'm a fan and these guys are human. I have shitty days at the office sometimes too, just people either don't notice or can't say anything :wink:

I support their efforts and hope they look in the dressing room and grab someone who's more down than they are and pick each other up by the shoulder pads.

Go Als !

YELLL!!! :lol:

Nobody wants a quarterback controversy...that's simply not in the cards anyway...IMO.
What we have here with the Alouettes is an opportunity...as one quarterback ends his career and another is starting.
While you and everyone else has a right to their opinions about Calvillo...it would be nice if a spirit of tolerance and understanding could show itself a bit more...for those who have lived the disappointments of the Calvillo era and feel that they have justifiable grievances with same.

I haven't made the comparison with the Expos spuriously. Like the Alouettes, the Montreal Expos were the cream of the NL. Not only were the Expos themselves a team overflowing with brilliant talented players...but their minor league squads were dominant for years...and continued to supply the major league team with vibrancy and youth.

And yet...with all that and more...the Expos never won it all...and ironically the popularity of their paraphernalia today mocks a team that is but a wistful memory.

In an eight team league, the Alouettes have been the dominant force of the past decade. And while Jim Popp provides all the talent the minor league system of the Expos did...Anthony Calvillo is largely responsible for the Alouettes preeminence. At the same time...it cannot be said that he is singularly responsible for the 5 Grey Cup losses out of seven appearances.

But it IS fair to say he did not WIN them

You do well to bring up Wilkinson and Moon...The Green and Gold won an unprecedented five straight Grey Cups (1978-82)...with the Wilkinson/Moon platoon in force for much of that time...and the transition from one to the other standing historically as perhaps the most successful display of cooperation and selflessness by two extremely talented and successful athletes.

I am certain that if such a system had been in force this past decade...and with the talent we have now...the Alouettes would have matched or surpassed the Eskimos' remarkable achievement. That...and only that...is the one statistic that matters to me...and to more than a few Alouettes fans.

And that is all that I can hope for the Alouettes...heading into the future.

:thup: :thup: :thup:

On that point, Senior, I could not agree more.

However, a "platooning" scenario is one that must be made by the head office and coaching staff. Would they be ready for such a move? I think that it could work. For this ever to happen, however, AD would have to hone his skills via more reps under center to build rapport, so that the O team could get used to his cadences, to get the timing routes down pat...etc. Necessarily, a 2-QB system is tricky to work out as each has his own style, thereby requiring the O-team to have great flexibility. All of this would take time to work out, and there would be losses to contend with along the way. The only exception to that would be if both QBs agreed, taking age, ability...etc. into consideration, to play the same style of O. Another scenario would be to pull AC for several series when he is off (if he returns next season) and to hand the ball to AD. Keep in mind, however, that while AD has definitely shown flashes of brilliance, these have been sporadic. Can he be brilliant on a consistent basis? Only time will tell.

For the moment and foreseeable future, AD is the backup QB and AC is the no.1 QB, which was Flag's point.

The ESKS successfully used Maas when RR had some game downside and, it worked! With respect to the Als- the management certainlly is not for a two QB system. They are not giving McPherson and time to develop [ this only comes with field reps ] and, in future will have to pay a cost for their decision.

Il n'y a pas que Calvillo qui a flanché. Tout le monde a flanché. On avait l'air des Timinous qui ont perdu 27-6 contre AM le 11 septembre.

Je trouve ça facile de mettre tout ça sur le dos de Calvillo quand ça va mal, et de lui reprocher de pas assez massacrer l'adversaire quand il gagne. Les Alouettes vont probablement finir avec une fiche de 12-6. C'est pas encore assez? Les autres équipes se sont améliorées, mais on demeure avec une équipe dominante. Je trouve ça très bien.

Je veux voir AM à l'oeuvre moi aussi, et s'il n'en tenait qu'à moi, je lui ferais commencer la prochaine partie à Montréal. Pas parce que Calvillo a mal fait, mais pour le voir composer avec la pression d'avoir à prendre l'avance, pas de fermer un match terminé. Les Argonauts ont une bonne défensive, ce qui ferait un bon test pour AM. Comme ils peuvent encore théoriquement jouer un match éliminatoire chez eux, ils vont être très motivés pour la gagner. Un vrai test pour AM, quoi.

Mais je ne crois pas que Calvillo mérite tous les reproches qu'on lui adresse. Il a parfois de mauvaises parties, mais il demeure le meilleur quart de cette ligue. Un des derniers jeux de AM vendredi, ça a été de lancer une passe dans les buts à Bratton alors que deux gars le couvraient et que Deslauriers était fin seul. Rien pour impressionner, mais le gars a très peu joué et eu pratiquement aucune préparation. Ce que je veux dire, c'est que quand on est un réserviste et qu'on a l'occasion de jouer, on ne peut pas se permettre d'agir autrement que comme si on pouvait encore gagner la partie. On doit apprendre à trouver cette motivation pour justifier qu'on peut jouer dans cette ligue. Je n'ai pas senti cette énergie dans le jeu de Big Mac vendredi.

Qu'on partage le travail des quarts l'an prochain pour amorcer une transition, d'accord, si McPherson étend son contrat au-delà de 2012. Sinon, attendons de voir s'il restera.

I wouldn't worry at this point about it. My guess is that AC will retire at the end of 2011 if he doesn't decide to retire at the end of this season. That would give us all of next season to start working McPherson into games more often, maybe even something approaching a platoon system. Then McPherson will be ready to take over for 2012. He's signed through 2011 so he isn't going anywhere, notwithstanding someone panicking about him becoming an Argo next season (not likely I'd say; he's under contract and we're unilkely to trade him within the division; and even if we were to do so, who on the Argos' roster would we possibly want? All I can think of would be Boyd, but we don't use the running game much so it'd be a bit of a waste even if Barker would be willing to part with him, which I seriously doubt).

MadJack:My first thought upon reading your post was that the Argos would happily give up Boyd for McPh. A QB is their great need and, much more difficult to find than an offensive back. Then as you noted, the Als might not have use for Boyd as, the Als do not run!

To my good fortune, I could only see the first quarter of this game and I thought AC was doing pretty well. The problem was that there had been 4 turnovers before the end of the quarter, most of them happened in the red zone and were not AC’s fault, the ti-cats were really effective at knocking the ball away from our receivers/carriers. After that qurter things were not looking good for the birds… The guys will have to protect the ball better than that because you know that the Argos will be attempting the same in those last 2 games.

Seems like luck has been on our side throughout most of the season and last friday we ran out of it. As long as we don’t come in the finals with a 3 game losing streak and a by, I think some positive will come out from this game.

They lost the physical battles on the road. These things happen. Als rely on YAC from their receivers and Hamilton's defense set them up real good and Cobourne's blocking and option skills were really missed.

Too tired to respond in French...thankfully

For bad or for worse...the blame does go to the quarterback...especially in a game where the offense scores but 3 points!
As I've written before about the 2-5 Grey Cup record...it isn't fair to put all the blame on the quarterback for a loss...I think we can all agree on that point....

I contend that it is fair to blame a quarterback for not doing enough to win.
In other words...losses come in many forms, and for many reasons: fumbles, missed blocks, missed catches.
A truly great quarterback takes all that adversity and rises above it, leading a team to victory.

This is a process that requires (usually) the scope of a whole game...the confidence of his teammates and the coaches and an unflagging confidence that whatever happens...your leader will see you all to the other side...to victory!!!

Whether Anthony Calvillo has been that kind of leader is a personal determination. Everyone knows how I stand on that.
But it gets a little tiresome hearing "It's not all Calvilo's fault" every time the Alouettes lose.
No one's saying he's personally responsible for the 40-3 humiliating loss to the TigerCats.

He just did nothing to stop it.