Bye Bye Boreham

It’s being addressed by bringing in a guy who is also a bad punter?..I don’t understand.

I agree Boreham isn’t a great punter. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying we don’t need an upgrade, I just don’t think we have one or at least enough of one to carry 2 kickers. I would love to see a good punter brought in.

I don’t have a problem with Fleming…I just don’t see him as that much of an upgrade over what we already have. I hope I’m wrong.

Okay, but why carry two kickers if neither of them can bring that to the table? Might as well go with Boreham unless Fleming really shows something. (I hope he does BTW)

I agree it’s an important part of the game. Prefountaine can change field possession everytime he kicks the ball. The problem is, how easy do you think it is to find a guy like that though?

Anyways, I’m not trying to hate on Fleming…we’ll see what happens at camp.

Okay, but why carry two kickers if neither of them can bring that to the table? Might as well go with Boreham unless Fleming really shows something. (I hope he does BTW)
I agree completely.

Well I've read this thread thru and it appears to me that the same people are starting the same threads all the time about Boreham...a hidden agenda????...has it more to do with getting under the skin of some of the regulars...the supporters of Boreham the coaching staff and the Ticats????...just wondering.

It seems to me that Onemoredork has reinvented himself again...lets see now...we've seen dork, dr.Snuggles, Ernie's Bert and now zontar all making the same argument! coincidence???? I don't think so! And of course Crash always follows these posts and agrees. Of course I'm not finding fault with the discusion but I really have to ask this question...What makes you 2 such experts that you know so much more than the coaches and management! Let alone people that have really played the game...not just watched it from the endzone! :roll:

I mean "Really"...to continually question the integrity of the coaching staff and at the same time berate the play of a proven veteran who does a good job and has the tough job that he has. There is so much more to enter the equation than just the punts and kicks themselves. Statistics alone do not tell the story.

I'm suggesting that we all sit back and see who does what and see if training camp and preseason show us that the coaching staff has done the right thing. I'm looking for improvement in all areas of the Ticats game and I think that we will be pleasantly surprised with the on-field product! If our kicker is Fleming or Boreham, both, or whoever the team picks up for that position...we will improve. I'm for cheering, supporting and encouraging our team.

The team has demonstrated that they have made an effort to improve in all areas and they will continue to monitor the kicking game.

I'd like to see some improvement in the kicking game, yes! Let's see what happens in the TC and the pre-season games...let's see who does what and not be berating players because you have taken a position that you know more than the coaches!...cause so far , since last season, that is what this type of thread has shown!

Let's see what we have, and take it from there! :slight_smile:

Agenda?
Get the best possible player at every position.
Ineptitiude, incompetence, mediocrity to be pinpointed , highlighted then hopefully expunged from the team. No ass-kissing, no playing favourites no "untouchables" just because a player said "hi" to you in a bar.

You can have your favourite players and defend him all you want but dont drag the whole team down just because you cant admit the player is incompetent.

The Boreham issue was brought up again becasue A: the Spec raised the point of having Boreham releived of punting duties.
B: It s training camp time and everyone is and should be under the microscope.

If your agenda ISNT to have the best players on the team but only to have a weekly social time with friends and only glance at the scoreboard every so often if at all maybe this site needs a new forum for that....

All players, except for the aforementioned punters/kickers are being
closely scrutinized in the full light of day and will be summarily
dismissed if they repeatedly miss assignments Zontar.

The coaching staff has wisely cloistered the kickers in the woods
of Cootes Paradise to avoid the damning microscope of mere mortals

who prowl the sidelines in search of punts that don't fly high
into the clouds and soar with great 'hang time' for long distances

so we desperately need the services of a great clairvoyant,
prophet and mastermind such as yourself Zontar.

Please help us Zontar. Tell us how badly our favourite P/K is doing

If you don't, how else will we get ammunition to use
so that we can keep scoffing about him in these forums?

Thanks in advance, Zontar.

Come on.
You need to be a “clairvoyant prophet” or an “expert” to come to the realization that maybe putting up with the worst punting in the league combined with mixed results at placekicking two years running isnt a recipe for success?

You dont even believe that, ron

We had a future Hall of Fame QB here for years got us a Grey Cup and he was dumped all over every snap and down analysed.Yet a below avg. punter gets criticism he undoubtedly deserves and suddenly we’re all supposed to ignore incompetence and make happy?

Gimme a break. Stop molly-coddling bad play.

I agree totally , if he cant do the job you get someone who can . Special temas is one third of each game and you can have the other two thirds and still not be succesful . Would anyone really care if Joe Blow is our new punter and we win the Grey Cup ??? Or do you only want the players you like and dont care about success ???

Just to get it on record... i only "follow and agree" when i am in agreement of a players performance. If Zontar came in and suggested DJ Flick be cut for his performance I would disagree. I always do.

Im not afraid to be honest in my assessment of a player's performance. I may not be a pro, but I (Like every other fan here) has every right to give their opinion, thats what a forum is.

If we all sat back and said "I agree with everything the coaches do, lets sit back and wait to see who makes this roster, I will then believe in all of them to make the proper decisions and never make a mistake" we wouldnt need to post. We could simply post that once, and never come back.

Not my style.

Exactly my point habman…don’t put much credit in the words of some dork who has never played the game!

My point was quite simple…let the experts do their job. :wink:

Couldnt care less who or how many people who agree/disagree with me. What I do appreciate is knowledgeable people diasgreeing with AND providing educated opinions and reasons as to why and not offering easy platitudes, attacks or arse kissing to try and shrug off the topic or shut it down because it makes them feel icky.

sorry Crash, can’t disagree more with your last paragraph! People enjoy doing things that give them pleasure. Comming on here and reading the same BS from the same people is not fun!

Your style is to profess to be some expert and your ego is being strocked by some dork who knows less!

Let’s keep the forums a little lighter of the personal attacks of players and fans!

Yes…Let’s see what Training Camp brings!

I am far from an expert. I have never proclaimed to be an expert. I do a training camp report for cflzone because i was asked to. The reason i chose not to add it to this site is for the exact reason you gave… this reason…

Your style is to profess to be some expert and your ego is being strocked by some dork who knows less!
Thats exactly what starts trouble, some people are on different levels of knowledge than others. I spend lots of time researching and reading up on football to know what im talking about. Do i? I think I do. Am i an expert like Mr Lancaster? Not even close.

Do I care if Zontar or anyone else approves? Not one bit.

Furthermore… if you dont like it? Dont read it. Nobody asked you to contribute to every thread you dont like.

Finally , woody, we're on the same page.

"Same BS from the same people is not fun"? Exactly, Stroking Cookie Glichrist and Tales of Sarnia isnt fun by anyone's measure.
Crash and others offer up enlightened opnions on what they have seen, none of them profess to be experts. Their opinions are not gospel but more informative than wandering around waving hi to people.

Aaaaaaahhh…now we see it…petty jealousy!

Funny thing about the above quote…“You” bring up Sarnia, not me, but don’t want to talk about it!..OK!

And for the record…it’s Cookie Gilchrist!

back on track…Who would you like to see brought into TC to compete for the kicking and punting duties?

Most fans would be happy if Jamie drastically improved his punting in the off season like he improved his kicking in the off season between 2004 and 2005.

Zontar, please use your powers of claivoyance to ascertain whether those loud booming sounds I heard this morning from the field out back near Cootes Paradise were the sounds of Jamie Boreham's improved punting foot blasting footballs skyward

or were they sounds of Fleming's foot?

Dunno, wasnt there. But my special powers detected “booming” punts by Boreham at TC in 04, the open camp in 05 in practice vs. Tack in 05 only to turn into 35 yarders or so on the field of play resulting in great field position for other teams and statistically dead last in punting and net punting two years running.
Your powers of forgivance can over look that, I cant ,I want the team to win.

IMO, it's not about how much anyone likes Boreham. At least that isn't the case for me. Do I like him? Yes. It's because of the heart he shows on the field and the commitment he has to improving his game.

It's really easy to say, "Bring in some guy who can boom punts 70 yards with great hangtime." The problem is, we can't find that guy or have yet to find anyone who is better then what we already have. Why? I think it has to do with a few things:

  1. Boreham is continuosly improving, therefore making it harder to justify carrying 2 kickers.

  2. (As said before) It's not that easy to find a consistent punter. I mean, the NFL doesn't even have league-wide consistent punters.

  3. We had other areas that the coaching staff (and many others) thought needed to be improved first. It seems to me that we improved in almost every area this off-season and who knows, maybe Fleming will come in and improve our punting game as well. Or maybe Boreham will elevate his punting game to an adequate level.

I think we have to wait and see what happens at training camp.

BTW, I think Crash does a great job with the training camp reports. I can never make it down so I enjoy reading about it and he usually has a pretty good perspective on things. Again this is just my opinion, but he has also never said he thinks he is an expert.

exactly my point…you put it out there much more eloquently than myself. Thank You!

And as far as crash goes, he is a fan and I did recognise his contribution favourably!

Let’s hope things work out for all concerned!

It IS a training camp after all...LOL

I am sure that these will be a healthy competition in the punting area among Fleming, Boreham, and whoever else gets to hoof it. For me, we need more consistency in every area -- yardage per kick, hangtime, and ball placement (punt accuracy). Punters are often told to sacrifice some distance to negate returns (e.g. punting out of bounds). Stats don't tell the whole story of what the kicking game is accomplishing, outside of FG percentage on placements and net yardage on punts. All I want is a fighting chance for us to win field position battles...

With the upgraded offense and our ace returner, Corey Holmes, we should be in a position to make the defence's job a heck of lot easiser, game in, game out. There really isn't any excuse for our special teams to go south any more!
You can have the most accurate punter in the world hitting Bernie Ruoff moonshots and it won't mean anything if you can't cover the kick and tackle. The entire thing is a dynamic -- I want the most consistent guy to emerge from camp in the punting area.

I am confident Jamie Boreham will continue to grow as our placekicker. Regardless, I expect that we can start lighting candles in our Earl Winfield shrines again because our special teams sure look more promising as a whole now than they did a year ago today!

Oski Wee Wee,