Busting an American/NFL myth on the CFL - the QB position

Yes I think too that the CFL comparisons to amateur ball in the NCAA were unwarranted and inapplicable. Apples and oranges and then some. I liked the rest of the article, but that part was just plain stupid.

Given some comments about NFL QBs in another thread, this thread was worth bumping since I had posted it in March in the offseason.

When you examine the current starters given that some of those noted below have been benched already, I would note and add the following five changes already.

From the quarterbacks noted in March, EJ Manuel, Mike Glennon, Geno Smith, Christian Ponder, and Matt Schaub are no longer starting NFL QBs.

Of the other starters, count these additional guys below out now too.

I'm excluding the QBs who are new to the NFL or who have not played much or are out this season due to injury this season.

The bottom line as noted below is still about the same. Less than half of the solid starters in the NFL in my opinion would fare well in the CFL.

What does that tell us about most of the backups?

AFC
Brian Hoyer, Cleveland - Low completion percentage and accuracy issues on a smaller field with no experience with a spread offence.
Michael Vick, NY Jets - What could have been? Vick's in the twilight of his NFL career as it is, but all the same do note he only completed at least 60% of his passes, rounded up, twice in his entire NFL career. But on the larger CFL field what could have been?

NFC
Josh McCown, Tampa Bay - No spread offence experience and he's not good anyway at a typical NFL pro-set offence.
Mark Sanchez, Philadelphia Eagles - Accuracy issues and no spread offence experience

This thread is worth a bump given that I have seen this topic come up in two different threads and as the NFL season is upon us in three weeks anyway.

Switch a few of the starting NFL QB names out from below given the changes in the offseason, and the total number of starting NFL QB's who "could have" had decent potential in the CFL is in my opinion less than half.

The reasoning behind the conclusion beyond the count is on the next page too.

Add Russell Wilson notably as one QB who could have been great also in the CFL, and also note the change in the rules for 2015 in the CFL so as to make it that much slightly harder in my view for CFL QBs given that the bump zone for press coverage is now 5 yards instead of only 1 yard like before.

My only quibble is I want to know what games the OP has been watching over the past 3 years where Rothlisberger has had anything mildly approaching "solid protection".

Other words and phrases I have used for Pittsburgh's O line are as follows:

Revolving door (both in personnel and the effort defenders need to get thru)
Swiss Cheese
We use to send the TE out on routes now they are just the 6th lineman.

Other then that, no real arguments from me :lol:

Many NFL QBs couldnt make it here. That should be a huge hint to people that its not the same game.

The NCAA argument again when Micheal Sam defensive player of the year cant register a tackle. The worst CFL team versus the Best NCAA team at canadian rules would see the NCAA team completely destroyed. Same with NFL.

I find it funny when people say he cant make nfl so must not be as good, at american rules sure, canadian rules they found these guys who can transition well and are naturally built for canadian rules over american.

You have to throw what an extra 7.5 yards just to throw an out in the CFL. Totally different strategies required and different players required with different elements to their game.

As many mentioned the one yard line of scrimmage changes a lot of things as well as to who youre gonna put out there.

A few guys can make the transition and play in both leagues, but for the most part theyre built for american rules or canadian rules and wouldnt do well at the other

You need bigger guys in the NFL, they can handle the extra running on a smaller field with the uptake in tempo in NFL game recently but the fact you have to train to make it up here and the fact you have to learn this game to be good here says how different the two games are. Again always exceptions to the rule but for the most part thats how it is.

I love a lot of the posts here though very in depth interesting reads on how NFL QBs would not do well here for the most part. And vice versa.

Just because someone doesnt make NFL and comes here doesnt mean theyre not as talented at canadian rules football and as we know they dont just take the guy who almost made the team as we can see how that turned out for micheal sam despite having 3 sacks in NFL preseason he has a horrible camp and cant register one tackle. If he was such a superstar he would have got at least one despite his limited play.

CFL and NFL are way different although appearing very similar

a Part of it, and a lot of Coaches and even QB's attempting to come into the CFL have said that

the EXTRA man on Defense has been a huge issue. they have a difficult time adjusting to that 12th guy on the defense.

also many of them who come up do not have the arm strength for the 65 yard wide field.

you all see it if you go to a training camp for a few days to watch. the young QB's coming up from the US colleges.

they have pretty good footwork, their minds are fresh and capable but they don't quite have the arm strength to get that ball from the far hashmarks to the far sidelines on a rope, hard!

thats where many of them fail!

again though on the other hand sometimes you get a case where the QB has a great arm but nothing between the ears! :lol:

Again if the NFL was way better then why did the 8-6 bears give up the lead for most of the first half played at canadian rules (only done in this game and hamilton vs buffalo, rest used mostly american rules in their games).

The als led until late in the game and even then it was only 9-7. If the NFL was way better they shouldve destroyed the dead last 4-7-1 Als and it shouldnt have even been close at all. We are talking a winning record NFL TEAM versus a 4-7-1 CFL team. NCAA wouldnt even stand a chance. And id say CFL now even the last place team wouldnt even give up a lead at all late but just goes to show the talent level is just as high in the cfl in any position.

Andrew harris a canadian jr footballer leading the entire league lol. No NCAA. More canadians especially at QB NEED TO BE GIVIN A CHANCE. They will dominate this league if given the same oppurtunities,
Still dont get montreals move with brandon bridge, cato has played great but bridge is good and deserves a chance

do you know how many years ago that was??

and where is your caps button? did it fly away?

your grammar and spelling is horrible.

Canadian QB's need to EARN their way not just be given a chance because of their nationality.

you cannot for the sake of "giving them a shot" put a Canadian who is not as good into a starting role.

the reason You don't see Canadian starting QB's is because they're just not as good as their American Counterparts.

that's it. simple as that.

The American system has better coaching , way ..... Way better facilities , competition , scholarships and registered football players . Our best athletes get gobbled up by hockey . The American kids dream of throwing a game winning TD in the SuperBowl or their home town college team . Canadian kids dream of scoring the Stanley cup winner . This still doesn't let Canadian high schools , junior leagues and CIS off the hook . No excuse for Canada not to have produced one legitimate starter in the CFL since Russ Jackson. Not even a backup . There is no bias on Canadian QB,s. We have produced junk at that position and hopefully this will change. Every team would in the league would drool over a star Canadian QB .

Given the insane amount of really, really, really bad American QB's that have come into the league over the years and seeing many CIS / Junior stars not even given a chance, I'd would say that there is an EXTREMELY heavy based on nationality alone and not skills at all.

The same type of bias plagued the NFL for years with regards to a QB's colour and height. Warren Moon and Dough Flutie wouldn't have even been considered if they didn't make some noise in the CFL.

He may have come for the education. You could try looking for info on Dzilewski at CISfootball.org, it's a great site.

Read Frank Cosentino's book "A Passing Game". Some interesting points on the how Canadian quarterbacks and Canadians in general have been treated by the CFL.

Name one Canadian QB that was so great and was held back, due to American coaches ? Canadian kids are behind the curve and they admit as much. You have high school kids in Texas running pro offences and have FAR superior coaching than Canadian kids. Usually the gym teacher is your coach, who may or may not have a football background. Our lack of coaching ,facilities and development is the reason. One other small issue, there is over 300 Million people in the States compared to 30 Million in Canada. Football is behind hockey, baseball and soccer in registration in this country. Football is number 1 in the United States in popularity. It's their religion like hockey is ours.

Bill Robinson SMU Ottawa 1970s. Scott Mallender UWO Toronto 1980s. Chris Flynn SMU Ottawa 1990s. Dan Feraday UT Toronto 1980s. Greg Vavra UC Calgary and Edmonton 1980s. Jamie Bone UWO Hamilton 1970s. Wayne Holm SFU Calgary 1970s. Bob Kraemer Winnipeg 1970s. Joe Hawco UT Toronto 1980s. These and others were never given a serious look though Bill Robinson and Chris Flynn were generally acknowledged at the time to be as good as or better than American prospects in camp. Others such as Jordan Gagne from UBC didn't report to Calgary as he believed he wouldn't be considered. Feraday and Bone spent time in NFL camps as well. Even Larry Jusdanis (Hamilton, 1990s) and Giulio Caravatta (BC, 1990s) were never really given an opportunity, though both did play some. I imagine Kyle Quinlan left Montreal be cause he knew he'd never get a serious look. Jim Barker has said that Danny Brannigan may well have made the Argos if not for the QB exemption.

Am I suggesting that there should be a reserved position for a Canadian QB? No, not at all. But QBs should be factored into the I/NI ratio; if that were the case Canadians would almost certainly be playing or backing up at QB over the years as they have been in other so-called "skill" positions.

Chris Flynn was giving a shot and was clearly not good enough. I was going to mention , please don't name Chris Flynn :roll:
I'm hoping Brandon Bridge is the real deal and will get a shot if Montreal struggles in the next few weeks. Kato earned the starting spot by crushing the GC Champs and solid play.

Agreed. Chris Flynn was a pretty good Canadian college player back in the days when CIAU football was atrocious, but he was never a serious threat to play in the CFL. He was signed by the Montreal Machine of the WLAF as a publicity stunt and even there was turned into a receiver when QB deficiencies were quickly exposed. Nobody saw him as being "as good or better" than anyone (other than standing on the sidelines, in which case he was awesome)

However Greg Vavra's tenure in the CFL were even worse. He did get playing time and proceeded to do absolutely nothing with it. His CFL stats were absolutely awful.

the Canadians are not experienced enough to handle Professional football. and CFL teams want the best that's available.

10 out of 10 times the American is better.

yea I would have loved to see the Als give the guy a chance but they needed to be sure and I don't think Montreal was willing to gamble their season on an unproven Canadian

Yes and Vavra had his shot with Calgary , where he started . Then went to BC and was released.

Sorry, but any reporter who think a good NCAA team could compete with a CFL team is just out to lunch. The best NCAA program may send 2 guys to either the CFL or NFL.

You put far to much stock in what 1 GM or what1 coach thinks of a player. Football players get drafted because of the schools they attend and who coached them. Go back and see how many NCAA QB get drafted with losing records, because some big GM likes him or some coach that went from the NCAA to NFL likes him. Meanwhile some QB from a smaller NCAA confrence goes 30 and 3 as a started but is only 5’11 and goes undrafted. Who has the more talent