Burris: "it throws a wrench in the entire system"

[disciplineandpunish]

@"seymour"

@"disciplineandpunish"

I hope I’m wrong about this, but I will venture to say right now: firing Cortez was a big mistake, and will set the Hamilton franchise back at least 3-5 years.

That’s a bold statement - what’s your rationale?

Well, I have something of a rationale, but I’ll admit that part of it is based on a feeling or intuition I can’t really justify. But here’s the rationale, for what it’s worth:

Hamilton had a great offense this season. Whatever its warts (Burris’s turnovers, not using Avon until the midway mark, etc.), the offense was the highest-scoring unit in the league, and IMO not the main reason Hamilton failed to make the playoffs. The main reasons the Cats didn’t qualify for the postseason, to me, were poor defense (mostly due to a rookie DC hired too late in the previous offseason) and rookie mistakes from a rookie head coach.

IF you agree with me on the diagnosis (and you might not, which is perfectly fair), then how does firing Cortez improve anything?

Regardless of whether Cortez stayed or went, you still need a new DC, preferably a veteran guy like Greg Marshall who can run a good solid D without hand-holding. Whoever replaces Cortez will still have to hire a DC.

Because Cortez is gone, you’re also out an OC and a GM, and your starting QB is uncertain about his future. The new GM, whoever he is, might want to blow things up and start again, and if he does, don’t expect the team to be a contender before a few years have passed. Sure, Milanovich came in and won the Cup in his first year, but Barker had already built a solid foundation in the previous two years and first-time Cup winners don’t happen every day.

Even if the new guy doesn’t blow things up, he has to hire a new HC and an OC and hope that everything comes together quickly. It is very difficult to imagine that the offense will be better in 2013 than it was in 2012, with a new OC installing a new system which may or may not play to Burris’s strengths.

If you keep Cortez and hire Greg Marshall (let’s say) as DC, I think you’re a better team than cleaning house, hiring a new GM, HC, and OC and also hiring Greg Marshall as DC. The former would have had more cohesion in the second year of Cortez’s system; the latter is starting from scratch.

[smokeystover]

@"FootbalYouBet"

@"Blue Blood"

@"FootbalYouBet"

if BY is serious about fielding a contender, then he should offer Mike Riley the moon to come and be HC. It might take the sun too though

As I said in another thread, Mike Riley makes over $1.5 million per season coaching at Oregon State. He isn’t coming back to the CFL.

how about if BY offerred him 5 mill, just to move to Hamilton as well as a House.[/quote]

5,100,000 ?

wow!

[seymour]

@"disciplineandpunish"

Hamilton had a great offense this season. Whatever its warts (Burris’s turnovers, not using Avon until the midway mark, etc.), the offense was the highest-scoring unit in the league, and IMO not the main reason Hamilton failed to make the playoffs. The main reasons the Cats didn’t qualify for the postseason, to me, were poor defense (mostly due to a rookie DC hired too late in the previous offseason) and rookie mistakes from a rookie head coach.

IF you agree with me on the diagnosis (and you might not, which is perfectly fair), then how does firing Cortez improve anything?

I can’t disagree with your assessment of the offense but, as I have stated previously, IMO an inordinate amount of the salary cap budget was spent on the offense last season at the expense of the defense. There were few if any playmakers on defense and if the defensive talent level is to be upgraded for next season, it will probably require that more cap money be invested on that side of the ball to achieve a better performance balance overall. That will require shedding some of the assets on offense to free up the required cap dollars and may result in a less potent offensive unit next year. This would have been necessary even if Cortez had remained IMO.

@"disciplineandpunish"

Regardless of whether Cortez stayed or went, you still need a new DC, preferably a veteran guy like Greg Marshall who can run a good solid D without hand-holding. Whoever replaces Cortez will still have to hire a DC.

Agreed, a new DC is required, but I don’t see how that fact can be used to illustrate how the firing of Cortez results in a 3 to 5 year setback since that change would have been necessary under Cortez’s regime in any case.

@"disciplineandpunish"

Because Cortez is gone, you’re also out an OC and a GM, and your starting QB is uncertain about his future. The new GM, whoever he is, might want to blow things up and start again, and if he does, don’t expect the team to be a contender before a few years have passed. Sure, Milanovich came in and won the Cup in his first year, but Barker had already built a solid foundation in the previous two years and first-time Cup winners don’t happen every day.

The Ti-Cats are out an OC but I see that as a minor price to pay in order to correct a major mistake at HC. IMO, Cortez never demonstrated that he was capable of being an effective HC at this level and that takes into account the many responsibilities of the job, including interacting appropriately with the media. Concerning the GM position, again, I did not see any reason why Cortez should be promoted to that critical position. He had no experience whatsoever as a GM to my knowledge and he seemed to have his own problems deploying his player personnel assets effectively on the field.

@"disciplineandpunish"

If you keep Cortez and hire Greg Marshall (let’s say) as DC, I think you’re a better team than cleaning house, hiring a new GM, HC, and OC and also hiring Greg Marshall as DC.

I doubt if the defensive personnel are in place to execute a Greg Marshall defense effectively - see my comments concerning defensive talent level above. In any case, the point is moot. Once Young/Mitchell decided that Cortez could not be the “face” of the franchise going forward, any questions concerning his coaching skills didn’t matter. Mitchell maintains that you need “a salesman” to be the face of the franchise (whatever that means) and Cortez will never be able to fill that role.

[Krisiun]

@"seymour"

@"disciplineandpunish"

Because Cortez is gone, you’re also out an OC and a GM, and your starting QB is uncertain about his future. The new GM, whoever he is, might want to blow things up and start again, and if he does, don’t expect the team to be a contender before a few years have passed. Sure, Milanovich came in and won the Cup in his first year, but Barker had already built a solid foundation in the previous two years and first-time Cup winners don’t happen every day.

The Ti-Cats are out an OC but I see that as a minor price to pay in order to correct a major mistake at HC. IMO, Cortez never demonstrated that he was capable of being an effective HC at this level and that takes into account the many responsibilities of the job, including interacting appropriately with the media. Concerning the GM position, again, I did not see any reason why Cortez should be promoted to that critical position. He had no experience whatsoever as a GM to my knowledge and he seemed to have his own problems deploying his player personnel assets effectively on the field.

seymour, you summed it up perfectly here and is most likely what Obie and Mitchell assessed also. Plus if many of the players really didn’t like playing for Cortez as has been reported then better to cut ties now before another season is wasted in a poisoned environment.

[Krisiun]

Burris might be griping a little because him and Cortez have a history working together and with fairly decent results as far as offenses go. But if the Cats make a good choice with there new coaches and co-ordinaters, then Burris will eventually come around to the new regime. Look at Ricky Ray. He wasn't overly thrilled about leaving Edmonton and he had quite an adjustment to make with the Milanovich offense but the final results speak for themselves.

[HfxTC]

@"Krisiun"

@"seymour"

@"disciplineandpunish"

Because Cortez is gone, you’re also out an OC and a GM, and your starting QB is uncertain about his future. The new GM, whoever he is, might want to blow things up and start again, and if he does, don’t expect the team to be a contender before a few years have passed. Sure, Milanovich came in and won the Cup in his first year, but Barker had already built a solid foundation in the previous two years and first-time Cup winners don’t happen every day.

The Ti-Cats are out an OC but I see that as a minor price to pay in order to correct a major mistake at HC. IMO, Cortez never demonstrated that he was capable of being an effective HC at this level and that takes into account the many responsibilities of the job, including interacting appropriately with the media. Concerning the GM position, again, I did not see any reason why Cortez should be promoted to that critical position. He had no experience whatsoever as a GM to my knowledge and he seemed to have his own problems deploying his player personnel assets effectively on the field.

seymour, you summed it up perfectly here and is most likely what Obie and Mitchell assessed also. Plus if many of the players really didn’t like playing for Cortez as has been reported then better to cut ties now before another season is wasted in a poisoned environment.

No matter how you spin it. “Three Chin Scott” hired George, gave him the extra duties to make the math work and the four year contract.

[CaptainKirk]

@"HfxTC"

No matter how you spin it. “Three Chin Scott” hired George, gave him the extra duties to make the math work and the four year contract.

But not just that, they had to pursue him aggressively and entice him with making him the highest paid HC in the CFL, a “long term” contract that you mention, thus amplifying the admitted mistake.

[CaptainKirk]

@"seymour"

…an inordinate amount of the salary cap budget was spent on the offense last season at the expense of the defense. There were few if any playmakers on defense and if the defensive talent level is to be upgraded for next season, it will probably require that more cap money be invested on that side of the ball to achieve a better performance balance overall.

But we don’t know who makes what. And we also don’t know which defensive players were/are available and how much , money they’d cost. It’s a bit of a leap to make that assumption, I think. It also makes the assumption that there is no available cap space.

[CaptainKirk]

@"Krisiun"

Burris might be griping a little because him and Cortez have a history working together and with fairly decent results as far as offenses go.

“Fairly decent”?

Numerous career bests and franchise records. Valid gripes, IMO, considering their familiarity with each other. Also consider the astounding successes Burris and Cortez’ offence had in 2012 playing with completely unfamiliar teammates. Yes, his concerns (or gripes) are valid.

[Krisiun]

@"CaptainKirk"

@"HfxTC"

No matter how you spin it. “Three Chin Scott” hired George, gave him the extra duties to make the math work and the four year contract.

But not just that, they had to pursue him aggressively and entice him with making him the highest paid HC in the CFL, a “long term” contract that you mention, thus amplifying the admitted mistake.

Yes, but the key point here is that they had the balls to admit that they made a mistake that was indeed quite costly. Mitchell and Young at least show there accountability.

[HfxTC]

@"Krisiun"

@"CaptainKirk"

@"HfxTC"

No matter how you spin it. “Three Chin Scott” hired George, gave him the extra duties to make the math work and the four year contract.

But not just that, they had to pursue him aggressively and entice him with making him the highest paid HC in the CFL, a “long term” contract that you mention, thus amplifying the admitted mistake.

Yes, but the key point here is that they had the balls to admit that they made a mistake that was indeed quite costly. Mitchell and Young at least show there accountability.

I do not agree. If they did Mitchell would be fired. If George decides to sit on his contract it will have cost 1.1 million dollars for his one year of employment. This is a team that is taking 500k handouts from the league and searching people at the gate for a smuggled back of peanuts! You call that accountability ? Maybe its selective accountability…

[CaptainKirk]

@"Krisiun"

Yes, but the key point here is that they had the balls to admit that they made a mistake that was indeed quite costly. Mitchell and Young at least show there accountability.

Agreed. No argument.

But sadly, it also demonstrates failure, and incompetence. Results are everything.

[CaptainKirk]

@"HfxTC"

This is a team that is taking 500k handouts from the league and searching people at the gate for a smuggled back of peanuts! You call that accountability ? Maybe its selective accountability…

That’s a good point. Never thought of that.

There’s also the angle that Cortez was ok, and should not have been fired. I lean that way, as I did with the Bellefeuille firing. In both cases, I thought the team was close.

[Krisiun]

@"CaptainKirk"

@"Krisiun"

Burris might be griping a little because him and Cortez have a history working together and with fairly decent results as far as offenses go.

“Fairly decent”?

Numerous career bests and franchise records. Valid gripes, IMO, considering their familiarity with each other. Also consider the astounding successes Burris and Cortez’ offence had in 2012 playing with completely unfamiliar teammates. Yes, his concerns (or gripes) are valid.

Hey, I’m just trying to soften my terminology so I don’t get into a debate again with his critics. I defended Burris’ production all season but some feel he had too many turnovers. Anyways, if the Cats hire the right people Burris will have another successful year and might enjoy it even more if our better defense steps up. There should definitely be a higher number in the win column.

[CaptainKirk]

@"Krisiun"

Hey, I’m just trying to soften my terminology so I don’t get into a debate again with his critics.

Aw c,mon! Debate is good!

I hear ya!

[Krisiun]

@"HfxTC"

@"Krisiun"

@"CaptainKirk"

But not just that, they had to pursue him aggressively and entice him with making him the highest paid HC in the CFL, a “long term” contract that you mention, thus amplifying the admitted mistake.

Yes, but the key point here is that they had the balls to admit that they made a mistake that was indeed quite costly. Mitchell and Young at least show there accountability.

I do not agree. If they did Mitchell would be fired. If George decides to sit on his contract it will have cost 1.1 million dollars for his one year of employment. This is a team that is taking 500k handouts from the league and searching people at the gate for a smuggled back of peanuts! You call that accountability ? Maybe its selective accountability…

But Drew Edwards e-mailed Bob Young about Mitchell’s culpability and Bob Young replied back, “For the record: Scott and I are equally culpable. We have been and continue to be working hard on building the league’s best football organization.”

Bob ultimately signs the paycheque and has the final say.

As for peanuts, hey there’s a lot of people with allergies.

[jordan02]

@"disciplineandpunish"

I hope I’m wrong about this, but I will venture to say right now: firing Cortez was a big mistake, and will set the Hamilton franchise back at least 3-5 years.

They had no choice but to fire him, not doing so was going to set the franchise back even further. Nobody wanted to play for Cortez, we were never going to be able to form a good nucleus because nobody would have wanted to come/stay here. We were also going to have a complete joke of a coaching staff every year.

It had to happen.

[seymour]

@"CaptainKirk"

@"seymour"

…an inordinate amount of the salary cap budget was spent on the offense last season at the expense of the defense. There were few if any playmakers on defense and if the defensive talent level is to be upgraded for next season, it will probably require that more cap money be invested on that side of the ball to achieve a better performance balance overall.

But we don’t know who makes what. And we also don’t know which defensive players were/are available and how much , money they’d cost. It’s a bit of a leap to make that assumption, I think. It also makes the assumption that there is no available cap space.

I think it’s a fair assumption when you have Burris at a reported $250,000 per, Fantuz at a reported $200,000 per, Cobourne at a reported $150,000 per plus some other relatively expensive offensive personnel such as Hage, Dyakowski, Stala, Porter, O’Neill for example among others.
I would doubt that much cap budget was invested in the defense but I’m willing to be proven wrong.

[seymour]

@"Krisiun"

Yes, but the key point here is that they had the balls to admit that they made a mistake that was indeed quite costly. Mitchell and Young at least show there accountability.

I doesn’t take “balls” to admit they made a mistake. It just takes a bunch of “lazy” money and some double talk for public consumption in an attempt to cover up their incompetence.
Accountability? How is Scott Mitchell being held accountable?

[CaptainKirk]

@"seymour"

I think it’s a fair assumption when you have Burris at a reported $250,000 per, Fantuz at a reported $200,000 per, Cobourne at a reported $150,000 per plus some other relatively expensive offensive personnel such as Hage, Dyakowski, Stala, Porter, O’Neill for example among others.
I would doubt that much cap budget was invested in the defense but I’m willing to be proven wrong.

Yes, I agree that the above is a fair assumption. I’d even say that’s the average makeup of any CFL team, and nothing unusual and doesn’t necessarily preclude 'big" defensive signings.

How relatively expensive are Hage, Dyakowski, Stala, Porter, O’Neill ?

How much cap space does that leave for the rest of team, and how much was spent on defensive players, and how much overall cap space was/is left after that?

We have no idea.

Also, what defensive free agents were available, and how much would they have cost? having cap room doesn’t mean you can snap your fingers and sign defensive FAs. Cap space has nothing to do with the availability of FAs.