Burlington Council votes 5-2 in favor of exploring stadium

They presumably have less information to gather in light of what the Ticats/Paletta group are offering as a deal. There are no issues with land acquisition, soil remediation, money coming outta city funds for the stadium and other buildings. There shouldn’t be questions about management and profit-sharing, when Burlington isn’t paying a dime for anything other than whatever roadwork is needed along the highway and the developers manage and maintain the stadium. All the Burlington staff have to do is make sure there are no stadium zoning issues, obtain assurances from Toronto2015/HOSTCO and the private group that they have a shot for approval if Hamilton pulls out (and the proposed financing arrangement can be put into contract form and approved in time), and crunch the numbers to determine if the roadwork needs are reasonable or not for the municipal budget to handle over the next few years while construction of the arena/stadium/hotel/sports facilities/etc go ahead.

I would imagine that there is some form of private assurances that have been communicated to Burlington Council that a Pan-Am relocation there IS a possibility; they presumably wouldn’t vote to study a complete red herring!

Sounds similar to what would have had to happen at Confed Park…Hmm

Can’t believe no one’s posted this found on Drew’s blog:

[url=http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/01/06/burlington-will-study-ticats-stadium-plan/]http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/01/ ... dium-plan/[/url]

"Toronto 2015 CEO Ian Troop has repeatedly said the Feb. 1 date is final. He reiterated that position on Thursday. “The February 1, 2011 deadline will not be extended under any circumstances,? Troop said in a statement issued following the Burlington meeting. “Should the municipality of Burlington wish to submit a proposal for the larger CFL venue, it will be evaluated using the same standards, criteria and deadline as applied to Hamilton.?

It has been posted.

People keep starting new threads about the same topic and stuff like that gets lost or becomes difficult to track.

Actually, the “Plan B” that HostCo has announced says that the Soccer Venue will be a 5,000-7,000 seat facility and that either Mississauga, Brampton, or any other town that expresses interest and can put forth a proposal (this would be subject to a new set deadline). If everything comes down to this Plan B, then the Pan-Am portion of the new Ticats stadium will be gone forever. At that point, HostCo will no longer be interested in a 25,000 seat facility. All they need is to cover their soccer games. This will only occur if Hamilton City Council walks away from any Pan-Am facility between now and February 1st. I honestly believe that this will indeed happen, since I don’t think that Hamilton can get a full proposal together by February 1st.

My suggestion above was only to point out that if another town (such as Mississauga, which will likely be the winner in this case) gets the smaller 5,000-7,000 seat soccer venue, then the Ticats will have to decide if they wish to proceed with the Aldershot stadium on their own, with their own consortium of private investors to cover all of the costs. It would either be that or relocate the team elsewhere or Bob Young could put the team up for sale.

My underlying point has always been that I don’t believe that HostCo will grant any further deadline extensions to either Hamilton or Burlington. To do so would undermine HostCo’s authority and credibility in the whole Pan-Am process. It would be wrong for any powerful political figure such as McGuinty or Braley to intervene against HostCo here. If they did try to over-rule any decision by HostCo, I would fully expect Ian Troop or anyone else involved in HostCo to resign, citing a lack of confidence in their abilities to perform their duties. That would become a really ugly scenario, indeed!! The bottom line is that it doesn’t look good for Hamilton, Burlington, or the Tiger-Cats in their quest to get a 25,000 seat stadium. :expressionless:

As I've said before, I can't believe for the life of me Burlington and Hamilton wouldn't be discussing the scenario an arch-rival city, in the sense that's it's a "Toronto city" sort of thing, would get the funding. I would think that would peeve them off big time, it would to me if I was in their position.

Secondly if the TigerCats move to Mississauga or out east, again it looks like the Golden Horseshoe as been "had" by a Toronto based city or worse perhaps by some "little" city in their minds out east.

Competition brings out some pretty strong feelings in people. Stay tuned I say. :wink:

Yes, and I've said before I can't believe that HOSTCO would turn around and say to Burlington "we can't give you an extension" past 1 February and then walkaway. Then turn around and say to Mississauga or Brampton can you find a site by the first of February.
How would it look if they gave Miss or Brampton an extension? Even if it is for a smaller facility they have to look for sites, council approval etc. There has to be an extension beyond the 1st of Feb if Burlington requests it.

Ken Peters Jan. 7 2011

Burlington enters Pan Am stadium lotter
y

Council votes 5-2 to explore ‘possibility’ of Aldershot venue.

[url=http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/309607--burlington-enters-pan-am-stadium-lottery]http://www.thespec.com/news/local/artic ... um-lottery[/url]

[b]Ian Troop says Hamilton is still in the driver’s seat

So what. They don’t want to put the key in the ignition.[/b]

they still want a stadium at the Rheem factory site
which is not acceptable to the Tiger Cats needs

and they don’t want to use Hamilton Future Fund money
to build a stadium big enough for the Tiger Cats to us.

ian Troop will not dare leave the Tiger Cats high and dry.

P.S.

The Burlington mayor makes the required politically correct comment.

“I really hope Hamilton figures out how to get a Pan Am stadium,

that would save us a lot of aggravation,? Goldring said.


Then, he says what he really feels

“But if that can’t happen, the next best option —

maybe the best option — is a Pan Am stadium in Aldershot.

[b]“I don’t want to look back in one year, five years or 15 years

and say we missed out on a great opportunity,

and I think that is what this is all about.?[/b]


If ex-Hamilton Mayor Fred had said that

Hamilton would have a new stadium to replace Ivor Wynne

a satisfactory place for the Hamilton Tiger Cats to play.

Another on board councillor makes his required comment.

“We are not committing to the project, we are putting out an expression of interest,? Dennison said.
How he really feels
[b]“This could end up being

a phenomenal opportunity, it could be an absolute boon.[/b]

We want to be in the game. It’s like getting a lottery ticket.

We have to say we are interested in this.?

I would say Ian Troop will not leave McGuinty out high and dry. Can you imagine the backlash if Hamilton gets nothing in this situation? I can't. That being said, Bob Bratina has changed the focus. He doesn't want some small time 6000 or so stadium and has openly declared that cooperating with Burlington is good for the region. So some sort of a united front here on their behalf could save McGuinty's image here as well perhaps, depending.

How long are they supposed to give Hamilton (or Burlington) right up until the day before the games?
how many extensions did they hand out already and where are we ? still in the starting blocks ... the same position as the day they announced they were going to bid for the games ..

The deadline was a commitment to Hamilton and only came out when it became apparent that there was trouble getting any plans finalized for a stadium ...

Hostco needs to make a deadline because they have games to plan for .... that deadline gives them time to go lockup a site for their needs which to them is more important than the Ti-Cats
The deadline is for Hostco to say " sorry Hamilton sorry Ti-Cats we are going our own way without you"
it just ends their commitment to Hamilton is all if there is a real "REAL" chance with Aldershot i'm sure they will look at it beyond that date but think they'd want some assurance that there is a definite deal to be made or else your still at square 1

If I'm a betting man I will say Hamilton gets the velodrome and Burlington the stadium. Just what I think but this is assuming a few things of course. But that's my prediction.

If Burlington accepts this project by Feb. Ist

and all but a few of Toronto 2015’s concerns
are addressed, imo, they’ll grant an extension.

Huh?

PRF, legacy sports facilities in other cities are okayed
and running smoothly all over the Golden Horseshoe

They?

Not “they” “him” the buck stops at Mc Guinty’s desk [not Ian Troop]

IMO, the chain of command for these Pan Am Toronto 2015

starts at the provincial government headed by Mc Guinty.
then, follow the money to the Federal government. [Harper]

Ian Troop is employed by the provincial government.

they then would have to give another country a chance

but how could another country

come up with something before the 1st of Feb.

As I said above, the buck stops at Mc Guinty’s desk

if he has to, he’ll tell Ian Troop in private, to back off.

yes, you could be right. Some legacy for Hamilton… what do they do with a velodrome when the games are over?
I think Montreal eventually turned their velodrome into a casino. It cost them a fortune to maintain it just for a small number of specialised sprint race cyclists.

Actually the velodrome became the Montreal Bio-drome, still cost them a fortune to turn it into a bio-drome

[url=http://cyclingfunmontreal.blogspot.com/2008/08/rip-montreal-olympic-velodrome-1976.html]http://cyclingfunmontreal.blogspot.com/ ... -1976.html[/url]

Come on I am sure there will be a huge amount of kids with $10 000.00 single spool track bikes that will enjoy it. Here is what happened in Montreal. A small group of elitist “amateur” cyclist (20 or so) used the facility without paying for it. While the city spent roughly a million dollars a year heating, cleaning, lighting and maintaining it… The biodome is actually a wonderful place to visit and is enjoyed by a lot more than 20 would be cyclists. They actually pay to visit it now…

This Hamilton vs Burlington (Aldershot) debate isn't just about an imaginary or invisible geographical/political border or parochialism. Or it's only a short hop for TiCat fans. It's about who wins and loses and the bottom line.

A stadium and surrounding development in Aldershot directly benefits Burlington (and Halton) financially and image-wise (see Bill Kelly's blog re "as a business, where would you look first to invest?"). Invest in open-minded, pro-business Burlington or small and close-minded, anti-business (dysfunctional) Hamilton?

With the stadium development in Aldershot, Burlington wins and Hamilton loses, now and in the future.

Far too simplistic of an approach longtime. With the proper transfer deals between the 2 cities, both can win, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. For every penny of this, in return you'll get a penny from that approach and we'll work to solve common problems like cleaning up the harbour etc. Lots of issues besides sports facilities but all can be mixed and matched.

Earl I’m sorry but Hamilton’s dysfunctional council cannot even get along with themselves let alone cooperate with Burlington council.
What you are suggesting is an impossibility!!!

I don’t see how that will work Earl.

What do you mean by “proper transfer deals” and exchange of tax and/or development monies?

How would Hamilton gain from the stadium being within Burlington (Aldershot) proper? Burlington would get the development, business taxes, possible revenues for other events, the positive image, etc. How or why would they want to share with Hamilton?

Burlington retains the reputation and follow thru of making informed, intelligent decisions and of being business friendly, unlike and opposite to Hamilton.

Look at the problems when Hamilton was expected to finance and upkeep LaSalle Park when Hamilton officially owned it but LaSalle (RBG lands, Aldershot) was swallowed by Burlington (Aldershot handed over) in the 70’s regional government double-cross?

IIRC (I may be mistaken), Hamilton finally sold LaSalle to Burlington to avoid having to pay to maintain a park in another community.

Is the Hamilton Future Fund to be used or any other financial commitment expected from Hamilton?

I don’t see such “transfer” of funds between municipalities being easily doable or accepted, especially given the empire-building, parochial nature of Hamilton Councillors, with many years of past practice and the stadium debacle as proof.

If they can’t work together for a common goal and good, how can they possibly work with a disparate Council?

Here is a crazy idea. How about Hamilton come on board for a stadium in Aldershot and contribute $10 million in exchange for all Grey cup festivities, celebrations etc to occur in Hamilton for either 10% ownership in the team or the stadium? let's get creative here and think outside the b ox for once.