.....Good teams start from the qb. position out....We obviously don't have a starter...I think the hunt begins NOW. We do have some back-up, inexperienced pivots and oft injured one...We need a starter...IF the Boimbers try to sell Buck as the go to guy next year and once the novelty of the new stadium wears off, I think we'll see a lot of empty seats...New digs or not... :oops:
Their is no way Buck should be starter next year. Mack should be fired now! :o
The CJOB broadcast crew talked about this on the postgame show. (Thank God for streaming audio!)
I think I’m paraphrasing Bob Irving, but it doesn’t appear the Bombers have next year’s starting QB on the roster right now. Elliott has gotten more than a fair chance. By this point, he’s not a rookie any more. We’ve a pretty decent idea about what Joey can do. I initially had high hopes for the kid, but Elliott’s record speaks for itself and he just doesn’t look like a starting QB in the CFL (or any other professional league). Apparently Brink couldn’t beat out Elliott in practice, which leaves Buck, and it’s simply too tough to be a number one QB at this level when one has a harder time staying upright than Madonna (albeit for different reasons).
My own take is that we don’t know who the Bombers’ starting QB will be next year, but we have three gentlemen who have removed their names from the list of those deserving consideration. Plainly the GM, be it Mr Mack or someone else, will have much work to do during the off season.
Hard to say. Maybe if these guys had a CFL offensive coordinator and a QB coach they could make a proper assessment. Will be interesting to see what the BOD does with this mess.
One thing is for sure in 3 seasons buck Pierce has only finished 14 games in which he started there are 54 games in the regular season alone. Buck Peirce has officially moved himself out of contention as a CFL starter for the rest of his career.
Some say it would be good to keep buck in Winnipeg as the #2 but every young QB that has a bad game will be looking over his shoulder and when a young struggling starter misses a game do to injury and Pierce steps in and plays well everyone will begin to wonder.
Everyone in the organization likes him, fans like him, players like him, and when he plays a complete game he wins.
But pro football is a business as well as a sport as long as Buck is in Winnipeg he will be a distraction.
It may or may not happen but in Toronto Ricky Ray is a durable QB but even the most durable miss some games here and there. Jarius Jackson was brough in to help the team throught a here and there game and does not have it anymore. Pierce in Toronto could be a great fit for both.
Frankyl weather Elliot or Brink are the answer we do not know yet. Yes they have been given chances to play and have been inconsitant but so has their role and neither has had the chance to ever be the #1 QB coming into the season. Frankly neither has had the chance to be the number two coming into a seasonas well with the 2 and 2a tag.
An Elliot and Brink combo may just work, many may not think so but they will never find out until they are given a chance.
It must be clear by now that we can’t design an offence around Buck. Now that the distraction of our flukey GC appearance is ancient history, we have to rebuild from the Kelly/Lapo era. Seems to me that Elliott’s best games were better than Brink’s best games, and Brink’s worst games were worse than Elliott’s worst, so I think there’s our 1-2 depth at QB. Instead of bringing in another Lefors or Jyles, maybe we should give them their real shot next year.
The worst part of all this is that many of the injuries that knock Buck out of a game are self-inflicted. That hit yesterday was totally avoidable if he just throws the ball away half a second before getting hit. I have never seen a CFL veteran quarterback with such a poor sense of how close the pass rush is to him. It's probable that all the hits and concussions have permanently messed with his ability to make these kinds of decisions. Either way, the Pierce experiment in Winnipeg is (or should be) over. You simply can't build an offense around a guy who is incapable of staying healthy.
The last time I can remember a season being such a let down for the its fans was the 1980 Alouettes of Nelson Skalbania. You have to go back 32 years !
If it's agreed that Buck can't be the man in 2013, the question is do you go with Elliott/Brink/Goltz in 2013 or bring in some new kid, or try to get someone with CFL experience?
I think you're probably left with options 1 and 2; I don't see option 3 as being realistic. Let's look around the league:
BC; no way do they trade Lulay, so do you want Reilly? He's apparently going to be a free agent so you wouldn't have to give up anything to get him. But is he better than what you've already got? He's certainly not more experienced, Elliott and Brink have played more games than he has. He has had what, two starts? They weren't as bad as some of Elliott's starts, but they sure weren't anywhere close to the two great games Elliott started. Don't really see him as an upgrade.
Edmonton; no way, their QB stable is weaker than Winnipeg's. Joseph, Jyles, and Nichols? No thanks. They'll be competing with Winnipeg looking for QB help.
Calgary. They won't trade Tate. Glenn you've had already. Mitchell has less CFL experience than Elliott/Brink/Goltz.
Regina. They won't trade Durant, and O'Sullivan and Willy have less CFL experience than Elliott/Brink/Goltz.
Hamilton. They won't move Burris, LeFevour has less experience than Elliott/Brink/Goltz; that leaves Porter.
Toronto: They won't trade Ray; Harris has less CFL experience than Elliott/Brink/Goltz, so that leaves Jarious Jackson.
Montreal: They won't move Calvillo, Neiswander has less CFL experience than Elliott/Brink/Goltz, so that leaves McPherson, who has played less as a starter than have Elliott/Brink/Goltz.
So I really have a hard time seeing anyone out there who might be available who would be a for-sure upgrade over Elliott/Brink/Goltz. Porter and Jackson have both had chances to take over as CFL starters and have been found wanting. The others have less starting experience than Elliott/Brink/Goltz, and of them, arguably the best might be McPherson, but if AC is going to retire soon, Montreal might not be too keen on letting him go unless you made one heck of an offer; and is he really that much of an upgrade over Elliott/Brink/Goltz such that you would be willing to give up a player or two of some value to get him? We just do not know at this point.
So I think it is likely that next season, unless Mack (or whoever will be GM this coming off season) unearths some gem out of a US College, it will be Elliott/Brink/Goltz next season.
Not to mention Edmonton is in the same boat and Winnipeg will have to compete for anyone who might become available and Ottawa coming the year after that and AC year to year. Once again we find ourselves with not enough experienced QB's to man all teams.
...I've scoured the rosters on ALL CFL clubs and have come to the conclusion that there really isn't a qb. with experience, to lead this team....We still have Goltz, who really hasn't been given a fair shot in my estimation....He's been in the Bomber fold long enough and deserves a fair shot....We have nothing to lose anymore in 2012 and it would be a good idea to see what he can do in the Montreal game...We have also signed a kid recently (Archer) who i know nothing about. It does send the message we are on the hunt....The post-game on the local radio station, that carries the Bomber broadcasts, have come to the conclusion that Pierce,Brink and Elliott are NOT the answer...I have to say i have that same thought....I was really high on Joe E. until these latest outings of his...I know arm strength isn't the 'be all and end all' for a qb. but i have to admit his passes leave a lot to be desired...Wobbly ducks and weak passes that end up in the turf are not what you want to see....It's something you can;t teach, you either have it or you don't...In conclusion, I would like to see Goltz get a few quarters to see what he can do...IF he shows us nothing at all, I say we clear the decks...Keep the ones we deem to have the best back-up quality and go hunting...Where we do that is 'possibly' on one of the other clubs rosters...(not edm.ham. or mont.) Reilly (fa) looks like a possibility BUT is he any better that what we have?????We have to remember that he is playing behind a very experienced o line and slotting him in behind ours might be a disaster...So the hunt begins in earnest...Good luck Bomber management :roll:
Looks to me like we're on the same page papa.
I agree that should be the way they enter training camp next year. There are those that will pose a different article and would blow everything up and bring in a QB from the outside which I do not agree with. As you mentioned the offense was built around buck Pierce not Elliot nor Brink. Having an offnence around them as a 1-2 and then they can make a real evaluation on Brink and Elliot. So far it is not far to access their performance especially since a lot of there PT has come in relief of an injured Pierce who started a game but could not finish.
That’s why they’ve been clinging to the hope that Buck Swarovsky would at least stay healthy enough to get them in the post season and maybe the post season while they develop their own. But Wally figured it out 3 years ago. Still I think JJackson, Mcpherson, Reilly or Glenn may be possibilities. Glenn’s shown he’s a capable starter in this league if well supported. Looking at Tate on the sideline yesterday those two can’t coexist next season IMO and Huff would much rather trade a QB to Winnipeg vs Edmonton.
That might change when Ottawa comes back into the league and Winnipeg (presumably) moves back to the West division.
But I don’t think papazoola is ready for the second coming of Kevin Glenn! :lol:
If I was playing at GM, I would
- Cut Elliott. Not a big fan of his but more importantly - struggling to throw the ball accurately into endzone seems to be his norm, throwing TD passes the exception. When you can't rely on you QB to do that in a throwing league, time to move on. And enough of the "he needs more first team reps in practice, he needs more playing time." There are guys out there that can move the ball as much as he does and be more reliable putting points on the board - Porter for one. He's the defacto backup to a guy you can expect not to finish a game, he should be prepping as if he's the starter, and the coaches should be putting in the work with the expectation that there's a good chance he's going to play. Also, is it just me or did it seem like they didn't let him take shots in the endzone yesterday? The TD he got was along the ground, and they ran the ball a fair amount in the redzone on that drive. If that is truly the case and they took the pass out of his hands to avoid throwing an INT as he's been prone to, why is he on the field. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. I get the argument that fans give up on players too easily and players in some positions need longer to learn, but I also believe some players will never learn and that's where I am with Elliott.
- Bring back Brink. Guy is reliable on short yardage, and has enough experience that you can fake a short yardage and take a shot on occasion. Give him another shot to win the #1 job next year.
- Talk to Buck in the offseason. He wants to play, bombers need a dedicated QB coach and a QB who can last more games than they don't. As much as he helps the team win when he finished the game, having him leave games injured hurts him and the team. Having him as a combo backup QB/QB coach will get him some playing time if/when the starter next year struggles, having a QB coach will help mentor a younger guy faster (in theory at least), buck takes fewer shots and injuries. You want an experienced backup? Buck fits the bill, IMO and would be a benefit to the team in two ways. It would suck for a fiery competitor such as him to hear that he can come back next year but won't get to be the starter unless someone else gets hurt, but if he refuses, then IMO you say thanks for your time here and release him. The team has to come first.
- Goltz comes back with a shot at the number one job or one of the top 3 spots. Choice is up to him if he wants to compete.
- RJ Archer is on the PR. Give him a shot in camp to win the job if he wants to come back or doesn't get an opportunity in another league (played in arena football, was in camp with the Detroit lions this year). What is intriguing with Archer is that the first couple of years in college ball he played wide receiver, could offer some unique options in the way of a wildcat offense on 2nd and short yardage.
- Bring in another arm or two, look at them in QB camp prior the rookie camp, bring one more arm to rookie and main camp.
I know there will be many to disagree but the fact is that they have developed two QBs in Brink in Elliot during this time. With the mess that was going on in Winnipeg and with Pierce in and out of the line up so much that neither Brink nor Pierce have been given a chance to succeed. The have player at the skill positions. NI talent and depth at MLB and Safety and a stall of talented DBs. providing Brink and Elliot the chance to go into the season as a #1 and #2 QB and begin to build on offensive line for them would make the best sense. Bringing Glenn back would be a step backwards as his time to be a teams number 1 has come and gone and his role as a #2 suits him well but Winnipeg will have two QBs that have seen substancial PT under some terrible circumstances it is about time to see what they can do under some better circumstances entering their 4th season.
:lol:
Over and above the need to find a legitimate starter (whether that’s Elliot, Brink, Goltz, or someone from outside), I think the greater need is to find a legitimate offensive coordinator, let him install a good CFL offense, and give him a multi-year mandate to succeed. The Bombers have been going through OCs too frequently the past few years: Crowton, Baressi, LaPo himself, and (shudder) Mike Kelly. A young pivot needs stability; he needs time to learn a system and confidence that the system won’t suddenly change in one year because someone in a boardroom is concerned about short-term profit.
…alright you guys :lol: …sooo I’m not a great fan of Kevins…One thing I would like to see next year and totally agree with wolverine on, is that we retain Buck in some other capacity than starter…I know it’s going to be tough on him accepting that, cuz he’s a gamer and WILL NOT accept going down an easy road BUT I think he’ll eventually realize that the team comes first…A back-up role and qb. coach job would be a great spot for him…He brings a lot to the club with his leadership qualities and warrior attitude…I would hate to see that go… Sooooo , we keep him, after that it’s a huge guessing game…I think we have to bring in (we’ve already started with Archer) a qb. with the BEST upside that is now in the CFL…Who’ll be the one to make that call is still in question…as there’s no guarantee that Mack will be returning…Until that’s settled, we have to keep speculating and hope Bomber management does their homework… :roll: