Bruce Campbell Retires

OT Campbell retires
This one stings...this was a big pickup and cost a draft pick
this makes 3 unexpected retirements...ouch

Picking up Thaddeus Coleman makes a pile more sense now.....but he is no Campbell...

yep all these so called big trades and pick-ups... Jones what a putz!

and lost some great players!

yes…one should anticipate a sudden retirement when making a move for a 27 y/o player i guess. I was never a huge fan of the Price move, but Campbell was a solid move…he is a solid OT. Should he have predicted George’s predicament as well and attempted moving him?

Fact is many import players are often on the fence when they are looking at family situation and prospects outside of football when they eyeball a 70k-80 contract…now when the dollar drops 20-25% from their first contract and you see these types of decisions getting made more often. Players often end a season questioning if they will play another (ie Foley a few seasons back) and end up coming back with a vigor after a break…some think they will be back and when the season draws close they realize that they are not prepared and retire (see that lots)…and that is made easier if a family/personal situation comes up or a good opportunity (ie mccullough)

The only thing that was missed was no conditions in the trades…but such condition is unheard of…though we might start seeing it. I am not a fan of trading draft picks for import players, but a OT the caliber of Campbell…that was ok - acceptable IMO. I have full confidence that down the road these moves will not be made…but they are reinventing a roster fast, and with the record moves they are making you are going to get burned on a couple

The problem is Depop is that we kept hearing oh we can't afford guys like Chick and Dressler and Fulton so we dump them and then go and get "better suited players" for the team. Well the better suited players so far have been a bust. Price cost us two draft picks Campbell probably cost us keeping Fulton.George possibly cost us Chick.

Oh sure Fulton Dressler, Chick all were high end pay players and probably over paid but now here we sit without them and with their "replacements" gone too. Could Jones predict these players would not be here? Perhaps not, but I also think he was over anxious to purge the team of players from last year and not only players that should have gone but also the reliable players of the team also.Perhaps he made some rash decisions to change it to " his team." Slice it and dice it any way you want, and no matter how much whip cream you put on top, some of the moves in the off season still has a distinct aroma of bs underneath. Yeah we got cheaper but we are also more then a few quality players lighter then we should be.

I think we will be lucky to get 5 wins this year and then Durant, Bagg and Labatte will be gone. We will be the Bombers of the league by the end of this season. The season after Jones will bail.

Sorry but that is the way I see it anyways.

Who ever said "better suited players"? It has always been players who are not going to be the top paid at their position, especially when they are not a top player. Staff said that when they came in...when they cut players...and ever since.

how have their replacements been a bust?

  • Lemon hasn't taken a snap, and was not pursued to replace Chick
  • Lemon agreed to terms about a week before Chick was let go (contract ratified later) and it was stated they hoped to be playing both of them and Jones has historically spoken really highly of Chick so there is no reason NOT to believe that....he was the first coach that came out and said Chick was game planned for.
  • Capi is actually the Chick replacement...after a contract could not be met...he is a younger NI player who outperformed Chick last season statistically and comes in at around 100k less...this is a win....he is still coming into his own and improving. Last season I felt that Chick was a better player because he did not have the same supporting cast strength (though he did play on the strong side of the line and the strong side for LB). He reunites with Lemon...when Lemon arrived they were the #1 DE combo in the league. He is going to be a fan favorite quickly AND allows NI depth (Ainsworth) to develop.
  • Price was NOT a Dressler replacement...they don't even play the same fricken position....so yeah
  • Fulton...that was HIS choice not to be back...he is doing workouts in the NFL...I think the Jags are interested IIRC. Can't see him sticking at 30 years old and coming off what was hands down his worst season in which he could never stay healthy...but best wishes to him
  • How did George cost Chick? He is making like 80 or 90k and took a cut. This doesn't even make sense.
  • I will chuck in Adcock for good measures...I was disappointed to see Adcock go, but Campbell was big upgrade on him, and so is King. Murphy is also the best in the league at finding OLmen.

So of your list of 3 "replaced players" none were replaced in the manner to which you refer.

Bagg is signed through 2018, so if he moves it is retirement, injury or a nice trade...which means the Demski, Chambers, Carroll or other promising NI players have elevated to starters and they can afford to move him for a nice return. The team actually has very good depth at NI WR right now.

Labatte just took a paycut to stay a Rider...so a move is very unlikely unless it is just time.

DD...who knows

Stupid money was dumped...kudos to the staff. They are going to get burned a couple times with record turnover. There were some warning signs with Campbell, but by no means enough to say he was not worth going after. Price was not the greatest move and likely one they kick themselves for...got trigger happy on that one perhaps.

When I say replacements I'm not referring to postion but to being on the roster. Lose Chick Dressler, Fulton, Smith salaries and brought in cheaper player on the roster. Now 3 of those "cheaper players" haven't even made it to the field. Price costing us 30 k signing bonus to add salt to the wound.

Yeah, but Chick's replacement is younger guy who is just entering his prime and is a NI and plays on a level on par with Chick and is cheapoer....so how is this not a win?

Fulton left on his own accord...what do you suggest they do? Not replace him?

And again...you can't say "cheaper" because cheaper than what? You say that you are not refering them as direct replacements...then you can't also make the cheaper statement.

  • Dressler is not worth 240k under present SMS, so I don't care who they replace him with TBH. There is no way he is worth anything close to that, and the market has prooven that to be true. He had to go.
  • Price, for example, whould have been the top paid Import WR...even if Dressler stayed and was making more (because he is a SB)....so that kinda kills the cheaper replacement argument
  • it is 2 new players that retired, not 3....George was here last season....absolutely nothing could have prepared them for the George incident. He was not a replaced....so that kills that
  • Campbell was a replacement for a player that elected to not return....he was not a "cheaper player" he was a required replacement...so that kinda kills that argument, even if they did get burned...they did not seek out someone cheaper, they were forced to get a player and wanted experience while new guys develop.
  • Not sinking 120K into a guy who had 3 documented concussions in one seaswon (Smith)...I don't have huge issues with that, even if I do absolutely love the guy as a player. This seams like a rationalized decision to me. I would love to see a team build around Smith, but there is undeniable hightenned risk there.

Your right George was with the team last year and he had a brutal season. Let s be honest, except for one season he really hasn't done a lot. He takes stupid undisiplined penalties way too often and yet Jones decided to keep him on. Chick on the other hand had a solid season but not spectaular by his standards. Still he hardly hurt the team with his play or penalties but alas he was too high priced and out the door he goes. Whatever though, Jones is the guru of all guru's I guess.

Agreed Depop.

Management did what they had to to make the team competitive again. Dressler, Chick, Brack, and so on were fan favourites but we had to move on after a season where this team was absolutely brutal.

George has always been solid, more so since moving inside. He had a poor year playing beside a DT that was not close to being ready and got doubled up on a pile. It is not a coincidence that when Munroe played they were night and day better on the DL as a whole, George included. George took penalties trying to do too much to compensate for what was beside him. The rookies were the Achilles on the line all season...and that is no shot at them...I thought they both had / have good potential...they just were not ready for full time action. when more rotations of more game ready DTs started coming in it is also when Hall's season turned around...not a coincidence.

Jones is not the ultimate guru or anything....he is messing up same as anyone is going to...but the way things are building are way more promising that recent memory. I still consider Murphy a better GM than Jones

Also...based on what Price put out there today he went in knowing he was going to F someone over this year. I mean, hey, the teams do it continually to players...but you don't really ever see a situation going in with the intent to do so, so in one sense it is nice to see a player get the good end of it...on the other hand he did it pretty intentionally going in and that is not cool.......not much you can do when a player goes in with that intent...learn from it and work on contract conditions surrounding bonus money in the future. As I said before...I think we are going to see more of these surprise retirements than historically.

The Campbell loss is still the one that stings most out of them IMO...big loss

Campbell maybe, but Dressler was a huge loss, that will come back to haunt us, along with Smith. Still p'd this was not handled better on all sides

sounds like someones making excuses for the new coach . we'll see how it goes when the games start

Call it what you choose...I have said I wasn't crazy on the Price move from the start and that they were likely trigger happy...plus he admitted on twitter he went in with intent of doing this....you feel most can predict that? I don't like it, but I am sure as heck not going to hang someone on that.....it goes in the bad move pile for sure. If that stack piles up...then it is time to start questioning.
Campbell was a massive pickup and is an outstanding OT....crappy he left....and yes, there were some cautions there and it is a lesson learned...and i said that. I am neutral on this one...players are starting to opt out under his circumstances. When you get a guy who can be your LT for 5 years it is generally worth going for.
George...who is going to predict that...and it was said by me and others well before this that he was not even a lock for making the team, so while it sucks it is not the end of the world.

So where are those excuses?

Dressler/Chick 500k gone (150k overpaid total) = money 2 DEs (one a NI), a solid LB in Jones, and Foster as DB. Those salaries still around = signing 1, maybe 1 of those. That would have been Lemon, and probably Foster....one lest ratio spot on the D end.

dressler and chick were more to the community than over paid ? your missing the boat here. it's not all about winning to everyone . although they were winners, without a quarterback. everyone seems so easy to forget that we were without our quarterback, that is the true reality. they should have kept them till this season then decided that. as for the money, well jones has gobbled up that and plenty more for his salary, and if anyone tells me his salary isn't part of the formula, I would say that's not how the riders operate.

Glenn was had the best stats in the league for QBs in almost every category and the O was #1 or 2 in most until he got hurt, yet they had no wins. DD going down was not an excuse...the D was horrid, the O was fine....until Glenn got hurt....That is the truth. Nobody has ever said guys like Chick and Dressler are not great players...they are....they were simply not affordable nor worth their contracts under the present SMS.....open market has proven that. These and other bloated contracts hampered signing NI starters and they were left with a couple duds, and they hampered getting respectable NI depth. The Riders had hands down the worst depth in the league...that can not improve with them here. It is night and day different already and still in middle of the pack at best, because that does not change over night.

What does Jones's salary have to do with the SMS...Lame reasoning....EVERY team operates like that....And for the record, if you total up all the positions he holds that would otherwise be held by others the club is actually saving a fair bit of money....that is a fact. Do you have issues with them saving money there?

Look at Capi community wise...the guy has already been doing lots with the community...he is going to be very popular.

As I have said before...everyone down to BT post exit has stated that the contracts were not going to be manageable moving forward. Even if the old brass was still around some of the contracts are toast. If you think that this team could have sustainable success paying a WR who MIGHT be a top 10 240k and a Safety who one of the top paid internationals in a secondary, and DE who is top 5 but overpaid MINIMUM 50k....i know a lot of people that want to come work for you then. That is called head in sand pretending all is well. The moves may or may not work. They may or may not haunt. They were absolutely needed though.

I agree there wasn't a real issue with the offense last year until Glenn went down but the defense sucked from the beginning. With that in mind though it would stand to reason to try and leave the offense intact as much as possible. We lost our best running back to the Stamps We cut not only Dressler but Smith too.

The arguement can be made that keeping both Smith and Dressler would have been a hard task but to lose both? It could also be argued that Messam was not an every down back but we also cut allen. Getz leaving was not a shock and Tbrack really wasn't either. The defensive back field was toast and rightfully so.

But whether it could have been predicted or not (personally I think both were very very suspect of staying) signing Price plus a bonus paid and Campbell who I really don't think had any intention of playing here were just plain bad signings. Oh sure Campbell may have been a good player but when he doesn't stick around how good or bad he may have been is irrelevant isn't it?
I honestly don't think anyone has any issues with the defense being almost completly overhauled with the exception of Chick. Now no there was no way of predicting that George wouldn't be around but I think he shouldn't have been asked to stay either. Like I daid before he had one good season and the rest were so so. Last year I would be hard to say he should have stuck. So if you take all those wages that are gone or should have been gone and then compare that to what it would have costto keep Chick and either Smith OR Dressler I cant see them balancing out. It has been pointed out many times that Jones just plain low balled Dressler and he never even made any real attempt to keep Smith. Chick I think he would admit he should have came upon his offer. That is what I think has quite a few fans upset. There really was no real effort to even try and keep Chick,Dressler, or Smith.

Lets look at this way. The price deal cost us as I said 30k signing bonus alone, but it also cost us 30k in a cap hit so 60 k realistically. Now not only did it cost us that but it was a spot that was taken on the team and instead of getting someone else or keeping someone all ready here we wasted it on him. The same could be said of Campbell. Again we spent a free agency move on him and not only does he not stay but now we have to replace him. How much did that cost us?
Oh sure on paper Jones's moves seem very sound but does that transfer to on field results? I honestly don't see where we have improved the on field talent by getting rid of Dressler and Chick. Yes Cap and Lemon are good pick ups with no question but imagine having Chick in the mix also. Was that possible without losing Dressler? It may have been tough and perhaps there couldn't have been as many changes made to the team, but still I ask with the changes and not having Dressler or Chick or Smith is the on field results this year going to be vastly better then the last two years? I have my doubts and the reason for those doubts is that the defense is not going to be a gelled unit with all the changes, now you add to that the offense is also plenty of new faces. So basically we are starting almost from scratch. That may have been fine if for the fact that the last two seasons have been a wash now you add a third and even possibly a forth season of next year before things start to come together. That is asking a lot of the fans to bear.
oh and to add that Messam was reportedly around 120k to get which we didn't so even signing another good back which I havent seen that we have would have probably been a saving of another 60k so with the Price botch up and the savings on Messam that is around 120k alone. Something tells me for 120 k we keep Dressler and Chick and get Cap and Lemon. Now that would have been a very promising scenario. Instead what we have now in my opinion is far from that.

I know what he offered Dressler...It was low....he was not willing to pay him more than a certain amount. So what? That is what GMs and Coaches do...they say I am willing to pay X range for this position...of the player is not within it, they move along. I still have no issues with losing Smith, even though I absolutely love him as a WR. He could turn out to have a massive a career...that said, with 3 concussions in 1 season I can also entirely understand not signing him for a 6 figure deal. Chick on the other hand was not low balled.

As far as all that money savings...what money savings? Getz was reportedly making 225...he hit cap for 10 games, so that is 125k cap hit in a season that they apparently were right at cap at the end. If you recall...BT said at the start of the season that it didn't matter where you started cap wise, only where you ended...in other words they were projected to be over going in. between Chambers (which IMO is a tad high) and Bagg's new contract...that savings is gone...not part of the equation.

So you take out Getz...that money is gone retaining 1 and signing a guy who if has a fair amount of promise despite some injury issues. Whos next...George at 80-90k? I think George was solid and worth it, and IMO did not have 1 good season...I've felt he has been great since moving inside but struggled last year with a rookie who was nowhere near ready beside him. Lets say you take that away though...great...you save 30k....you still want to sign some depth at DT? You aren't getting a starter and a guy who can back him legit at 52k each....lets say 75 and 65...an average of 70k k for his spot...great...you are up maybe 20k.

Is 20k going to sign these guys...no...Chick...probably...but then you get back to the whole issue of overpaying a player...and that 100% hampers your ability to sign other guys. When players see a player overpaid compared to their equals in the league they want a premium to...you don't give it, they don't sign....that's the way the world spins, like it or not.

But ok...now you have Chick...great, I love the guy...he is a beast. But you still have no extra money freed up do you? So you let go Brack and MacDougal...well over 200k between them...call it 250...I think probably more. You need a NI D guy to replace him...so MAYBE Capi signs...maybe...I mean you can't sign Lemon and him, and one of the things that attracted him was his sparring partner in Lemon. But we will pretend they never went after Lemon and managed to land Capi. That is around 200k because of his passport. So you have 50K left....you still need to sign a LB, so call that a wash at best. Now you likely can't retain Ainsworth...so awesome...you have a solid NI DE and the prospect behind him is gone. You also don't have money for Foster, Greg Jones, Lawrence, Walter. THAT is what removing 2 players high contracts and not bending on a top price did. The D was horrid and 6 players making 25% of that = the team not getting better.

Spend your money on:

  • a QB, then
  • NI starters, then
  • a few Import stars but never the tops for their position in the league
  • NI depth
  • Import support

That is the recipe in the CFL...one that the club is somewhat back in line with. They have paid premiums on a few because they gave up their NIs the past 3 season and overpaid Imports to the point they had no depth...enter the rotating garbage heap players brought in last season, Harris starting in a spot he shouldn't, horrific secondary...they couldn't afford anything.

And no...losing 30 grand of SMS is not losing 60 grand at all. They lost 30k that happened to be SMS money. Don't get me wrong, that really sucks, but it is still 30 grand no matter how it is spun.

As much as I would have loved to have seen Chick around, and seen the 3 in the mix...and the staff did to...Norwood is an absolute beast when he is back....and yes...ye will be back. He is already playing basketball...he will be back this season barring something shocking.

well maybe players are retiring suddenly when they see the money chris jones is taking, while he's now asking the players to play for peanuts, is it really worth it for these athletes to kill themselves for $80,000 , they may as well work in the oil fields and make $120,000 , and not get there brains bashed in every game??

People really need to get over Jone's pay. again...take all the roles he is doing and pay an individual person...they are money ahead. He makes a great paday for sure...but they are still actually ahead fiscally ion it.

If they want to play, then yes, it is worth it. This is the problem right now...It is not just the CFL....guys in the NFL are retiring early or walking away...it is only going to get worse, likely a LOT worse. As I said before...drop 20 cents off the dollar and it only amplifies it. A player has used his NFL PR time and it is even worse...because he is not going back and eventually realizes....That was the warning with Campbell...and I can see teams writing conditions round it into trades in the future....they are not there now. Campbell's bit combo was dollar drop, moving further away from home and apparently a GF who can't move. Teams get burned on trades like this all the time...look at when the Riders picked up willis...there was a condition that he extend the next season....fortunately Hervey inked him before FA season started and the Riders never had to pay...it happens even with conditions.

Frankly I could give a tinker’s damn what Jones is making. Honestly it has little effect to the on field product. I guess we just can’t agree on this one depop you see these other guys you mention, Foster, Greg Jones, Lawrence, Walter. Mean squat to me yes Cap and Lemon as I said great signings but now look at our offense. What player name stands out as anything more then a brand x player other then Bagg and Durant? We lost our running game and we lost our receivers and as you have pointed out Our O line is suspect. So now what? We have a brand new defense with playing time together and an offense that will be virtually in the same situation. How can that be a recipe for success. Yes I agree that the defense needed rebuilding and that should have been that but leave the friggen offense intact. The year after you might want to re access the offensive situation but at least the defense should be somewhat intact from this year if you did your job as the GM. Gutting both sides of the ball now leaves you pretty toothless and whether you want to admit it or not this could be even a more frustrating season for the fans then the last two were due to all the changes. You think fans are going to look forward to that? I know I certainly am not. The past two seasons were hard enough to stomach let alone the potential for possibly 2 more of the same to come.

I still say Jones will last this season and next and will either be turfed or he will bail.