Bombers told to make their loan payments or else

Yeah, he finally rejoined the Board early in 2011:

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers' board of directors has grown by two members.

The local Canadian Foootball League operation have officially added David Asper and Phil Sheegl to the board, it was announced today. The two men push the Bombers board to 10 members, with Bill Watchorn serving as chairman.

Asper is no stranger to the inner workings of the organization, having served as a former chairman of the Bombers board and as a vice-chair of the CFL's board of governors.

He had to step down from the Bombers' board when he oversaw the stadium project. Part of the deal that saw him step away from that project involved him getting his board seat back.

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Before 2007 the last time toronto hosted a Grey Cup was 1992, that's 15 years !! and the bombers would have been awarded the Grey Cup in 2014 but something happened :wink: and B. C. took it !!

Ticats have sold 80% of their suites which thay didn't have as many at I W S and with the sponsorship deal with Tim Hortons, In addition, to multiple other revenue streams they will be in the black sooner rather than later ! The new stadium will also have field seats from the goal line to goal line which is huge revenue plus 1000 club seats which also were not very many at I W S .

Once again mikem

It's $1.2 million the Ti-Cats are paying to use THF. $450,000 in rent per year and $750,000 for the right to sell the naming rights. That $750,000 however is already taken care of for the next 10 years as Tim Horton's has picked up in naming rights, and I don't think the Ti-Cats would have taken a loss in selling those rights, so that is likely making them money.

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The City of Hamilton didn't finance a dime of the build, the stadium is already completely paid for. The Feds put in $69.1 million, the province $22.3 million and the local city government used $54.3 million of money that it stored away in it's future fund (which I believe came somehow from the sale of Hamilton Hydro to Horizon Utilities). The tabbies don't have to worry about ticket surcharges being applied to them in order to use the stadium.

not wanting to read thru this whole thread, I gotta ask, or else WHAT?

Yes $1.2 million per year but the city also will get a percentage of the concessions. In other words the more people that buy beer/pop etc the more money to the city. That's why it will likely be in the range of $1.5 to $2 Million.
Of course the team would not take a loss in selling naming rights. It's the fact that the team will be paying out anywhere from 1.2 Million to 2 Million to the city. That is a payment that the Ticats didn't have to make at the old IWS.
Whether the city used $54 million or not from taxpayers is neither here nor there - the Ticats are on the hook to pay most of that back over 20 years.
That's why I said that any increase in the TV revenue will go out in re-payment to the city and no doubt the increase in players salaries. Still no guarantees the Ticats will make money unless they fill every seat every game including the "suites" and the fans buy a lot of concessions.

Could I get a source as to where as part of the deal that the city gets a chunk of the concessions? I have not heard that being a part of arrangement, even once. This strikes me as odd given that the Ti-Cats have annouced and chosen who has the pouring rights to the facility. It strikes me as odd that they could sell this with such ease if there was a concession surcharge. I should also add, they'd added gate naming rights for the various enterances, which is going to be more revenue for the team.

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The future fund money wasn't a loan given to the Ti-Cats to build THF or a loan that the city lent to itself to build the stadium. It was an exependiture from a city owned and managed fund to use that stored money to build a stadium for the Pan-Am Games, utilize it for community use in the future and rent it out to the Ti-Cats to generate revenue. Part of the qualification for both Federal and Provincial funding was that the city retained full ownership of the stadium.

The Ti-Cats aren't on the hook to pay any of it back. The Ti-Cat's don't own the facility, the city retains complete ownership of the facility, the Cats are just renting it. Yes, they have to pay their $450,000 in rent and $750,000 share of the naming rights (which they are already making back entirely), and there are a couple other side obligations (like providing the City advertising I believe) but that's as far as the Cat's obligation goes for the rights to Tim Horton's Field. Where that rent money goes, is up to the discretion of the City of Hamilton, it may or may not go back into the future fund. It likely won't, but that's a matter of Hamiltonian Politics at that point.

I believe what mikem is referring to is this

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The club is expected to guarantee the city at least $450,000 per year in rent, plus another $150,000 if a professional soccer team is located at the new stadium. The club will also provide, but not guarantee, to the city nearly $168,500 in seat rentals. The Tiger-Cats agree to pay the city $9 million for Ivor Wynne’s naming rights for $750,000 per year. The city is using the money to help finance the stadium. Hamilton also will receive 10 per cent of the Tiger-Cats’ net income starting in the fourth year of the deal.“The more our asset grows, the more we benefit,? said Bratina. “(The Tiger-Cats) are not just a tenant. They were integral to the project. The football team is closely associated with our city.?Under the agreement the city is creating an Ivor Wynne Community Fund, which will assist in recreation projects in the area. The city will contributed 50 per cent of the parking revenue and its portion of the revenue from the club to fund the reserve.
Although it should be noted that it clearly states that the club will provide but not guarantee the additional money. Since the unveiling of THF naming rights and updated renderings, there has been no mention of any more money going to the city beyond the naming rights and $450k in rent. the is also an agreement that if soccer does come an additional $150k will be paid to the city.

As for the Bombers situation, i have no doubts that the payments will be made for this year, however next years and the years following is anyone's guess.

Just a quick eyeball : Ticats 1.2 million a year, Bombers 4 million a year.

Bombers $4.5 million for at least the next 3-4 years.
$3.5 million to pay the $10million loan from CIBC, to cover the "upgrades"...................... still smh on that one.
$1 million to the province.

Starting in 2017 it should go back to the $4million range, but I should also add that the Bombers still owe the about $1million to the city through the WEC debt load they took over.

I believe that article is out of date, given that it's from 2011 and speaks of renovating the stadium, but it once again doesn't speak of the concessions. It does however state a couple obligations I wasn't aware of, but they seem pretty minor.

What I pull from the "provide but not garauntee" is we will provide free seats to the city, but if they place sells out, it sells out, all bets are off if the seats aren't available to be given to the city." it's not exactly clear.

The 50% parking revenue, is barely worth mentioning. THF much like Ivor Wynne before it, doesn't have a lot of parking to make money on, so giving up half is not a big item, it's probably making just over six figures yearly. It's espcially true with the game day bus service and all of the residential lawn parking in the area. I suppose though it is a slight hit to where the Ti-Cats can make money, but it pales in comparrison to revenue from concessions, gate and merchandising.

Last but not least, the 10% net income, is irrelevant to the discussion. Net income is money after all expenses are paid. If the Ti-Cats don't have a profitable enterprise that isn't making money, they pay nothing extra here. It's not gross income.

The Ticats worked out a very, very generous and manageable agreement on their new stadium.

Which they should, they agreed to have the stadium built and pay high rent, CFL wise, for a location which is far, far from ideal from what the Cats and their fans wanted, as indicated in surveys. Total compromise in Hamilton to get the deal done, unfortunately we had the wrong mayor in power at time. His legacy? Yes, got the stadium deal done (actually with the new mayor following up on the previous mayor's committement to a new stadium) but in the not so best location for the city, Cats etc.

I can't imagine if we had a more progressive mayor at the time who actually wanted to work with the Cats on the best site etc. But that isn't how this city works, for the most part the intellectuals here hate the Cats, and they run the city from so many aspects.

At least if the Cats fail at the gate in the future, it's easy to say to the city - you're fault but it's your stadium, go to it.

.....What the team needs to do is replace some of the dunder heads on the b.o.d....Get on the right footing.... Put the right coaches in place,then build a winner that fans will actually come out in droves to watch...(and the fans WILL support this team in droves.. passionately)...That will go a long way in securing the financial success this team needs...The facility is a gem but needs a worthwhile product on the field of equal value....I believe the tide has turned and the right people are in place to start the process for change...I don't think we need the heavies from the mafia paying the management a visit.. the friendly heads-up from the premiere will probably get the desired effect...He made them an offer and some suggestions they couldn't refuse...I'd say they got the picture.. :wink:

This is exactly what I was saying, because the City of Winnipeg, the University of Manitoba and the Blue Bombers organization are all partners and part owners of the facility, and they all agreed to take on debt to pay for it, they are all obligated and will be suffering for years to pay it back, either through ticket surcharges, having to cut programs at the univerisity or raise tution or hiking up taxes.

I do stand corrected though the city did take out 9 Million in financing that the Ti-Cats are obligated to pay back. That's what the $750,000 a year over 20 years naming rights deal is going towards. I don't know what kinda interest rate the city got on that financing, but assuming a respectable prime +1% rate the city's AA credit rating should more then allow for, that should be paid off for in 17 years, meaning a handsome profit for the city for the last three.

However, although we don't know how much Tim Horton's paid for the naming rights, it's a safe bet to say it's likely over $750,000 and that the Ti-Cats aren't going to take a loss on it, espcially when you consider Tim Horton's is donating $500,000 a year into the Ti-Cats minor football program as part of the deal. Nevermind the other naming and access rights the Cats will be making.

Either way, even if you take the figures to the complete max, the debt load that the city and the Ti-Cats had to take pale in comparrison to what Winnipeg, the University and the Bombers had to take on. Sure, maybe THF won't be as sparkling new at Investor's Group Field, but it will be light years newer then Ivor Wynne was, and almost certainly better then BMO.

Well according to angry Bomber fans on here telling us all summer that the Bombers make SO MUCH money that stadium payments are easy peasy. Looks like Salinger agrees with them :lol: and at least as long as he's in office will make sure they pay up.

Only article I could think of when mikem brought up how the Ticats rent could be higher than the reported $ 1.2 million.

The Cats and City screwed themselves by not going to a better location. (Confed Park or Longwood/Aberdeen)
Money or lack thereof probably played into it I suppose.

THF $152.7 million
Investors Group Field $203.5 so far and still not completely finished
Sask’s new stadium $278 million
BC Renovation 514 million Ottawa Stadium renovation last I heard was around 110 million

The City and University don't have to pay anything back, they are "partners" owning 40 and 20% respectively, but that had more do do with the Bombers not being able to fund it %100 and the fact that the University has bylaws that do not allow solely/majority owned private buildings on campus. The Bombers have to repay the full $85 million back to the province (which I don't see happening), plus the $10 million loan from CIBC, plus another $1 million to the city for the WEC debt load.

The University also gets to use the stadium for free, Bombers take on all operational costs of IGF. So hydro, concessions etc used during Bisons games and practices are yearly costs taken on by the Bombers.

The Tim Hortons naming rights deal is reportedly worth $1.7 million per season, I'm searching for the original link for that information.

I should have added that the City does have to repay the Province $37.5 million which will come from the sale (already done for $30 mill) and development of the old Canad Inns stadium site at Polo Park.

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For anyone who wants to see the money breakdown.

Stadium numbers are in. Came in at 203.5 million dollars. 13.5 million over budget

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That little extension the Bombers got for 3 years not paying full rent for a 10 million dollar loan ends up costing tax payers and extra 3.1 million in interests :cowboy:

But it gets worse. Because no payments will be made on the loan until next year at the earliest, interest of $7.4 million is accruing per year on the principal amount alone.

Which means by next year, taxpayers will be owed well over $180 million before the first $1-million payment is made by the Bombers.

And because of delays in repaying the money, as well as the one-year delay in building the stadium, government now says it's going to take at least 47 years for the Bombers to repay the loan, up from the 40 years

Man do the Ottawa and Hamilton projects ever look good compared to this. Something for Saskatchewan to look at before embarking on their own project.