Wow!
Just…Wow!
Here is a link to the story on the 900 CHML radio website:
[url=http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/Story.aspx?ID=1061584]http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/New ... ID=1061584[/url]This is brilliant news for people in the Hamilton-Burlington area and for Ticat fans. Bob Young's announcement is giving the stadium project the momentum it needs at just the right time. Thanks, Bob!
Here is the link to the video interview of Bob on the Ticat website talking about the stadium
http://www.ticats.ca/media/video/id/6003Another story from the mid 80’s when the st louis cardinals had there triple a team (hamilton redbirds) they wanted to put a double a team here and were willing to pay for a new stadium if the city would rezone the area . where are they now? not here!!!
Hamilton has been and always will be filled with yoyo's for politicians. They whine and complain and accuse each other or wrong doing, always acting in their own perceived best interests (which in most cases is self interest), but rarely to the net benefit of the entire community. I could argue that most of this culture was groomed from lack of leadership. I think the tide may have turned a bit though, Fred is the first guy to be my friend (on Facebook).
So along comes a legitimate investor (aka Bob), and these guys are scrambling to figure out what to do. They are so used to being engaged in imaginary negotiations with trade unions that speculate and allow their assets to crumble, and higher levels of government that build buildings and fund projects for them.
There is a good reason I moved from the Hammer 6 years ago now yet I still watch the CH News (well maybe for not much longer if the Asper's can't figure out a business model). Its down right entertaining.
I'll be watching this one with great interest. All the arguments will point to urban renewal, a west harbour location and I guarantee the whole thing will go way over budget....if council can get over the initial hurdle of being a business partner, landlord and visionary group....there could be a hope for the Hammer.
Here is an update of yesterdays article
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/510537February 10, 2009
John Kernaghan
The Hamilton Spectator
Cats Could Kick In Cash For The Pan Am Stadium
The city will review three potential sites
for the 2015 Games bid on Feb. 23.
...Young said getting about $56 million from
the provincial and federal governments
toward a 24,000- to 27,000-seat stadium
is "a once-in-50-year opportunity."
He said the location must have good highway and rapid transit access.
It must also be able to generate revenue and development
to support the cost of building and maintaining the facility, he said.
Young said the stadium's bottom line could be bolstered by
selling naming rights, hosting multiple sports and concerts,
and possibly incorporating office, retail,
restaurant, cinema and health-club uses.
...Young said he had no preference among
the potential stadium sites:
the airport lands, the west harbour and downtown.
The latter is almost off the table due to
land assembly complications and high cost.
While he said he prefers keeping the Ticats in Hamilton, Young
would consider a Burlington site as long as he gets
"a fancy new stadium that we and others
can build businesses and championship teams in."
I think the only way that a stadium is going to get built is with a Private/public partnership. Look at what is happening in Ottawa, two major groups competing to build two different stadiums.
You have a group of millionaires that want to re-develop Landsdowne with the city, they see potential of not just a stadium but entertainment, restaurants condos etc. The city will recoup their investment in roughly five years. You have Melnyk pushing for a partnership with the city for his soccer stadium out beside his hockey arena.
In Winnipeg you have the Aspers partnering with the city to build not just a stadium but a similar entertainment center.
Expecting governments to build and run these things will never work.
8) According to a poll being taken on the Spectator site, as to whether you think we should drop out of Pan Am bid or not, the naysayers votes are ahead right now !!!
What else is new in Hamilton !!! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->I wouldn’t worry too much about elementary school polls. I think mike is right, a public/private partnership is the way to go. That being said, there have to be people on board with this to want to make it happen who have vested interests and the smarts to do it. I was at dinner in Burlington Saturday night at a bar and grill beside a major movie complex and you couldn’t find parking so maybe there’s a recession but you wouldn’t know it from the looks of it there.
I agree completely. Hamilton seems to always get “idiot”, self-serving politicians.
One of the best get-things-done mayors IMO was Jack MacDonald but he was ousted for the sleepy Bill Powell Sr, at which time the City became comatose and it’s never fully recovered.
It took 50 years to build an expressway, numerous opportunities have been missed (ie, the mentioned planetarium in the past, industry (Maple Leaf Foods) recently , airport development today, etc). If not parochial self interest, special interest groups that hold sway and delay. One of the few communities where minority mob rule exists. The “Citizens for “Regressive” Development” comes to mind re holding up the airport development (a main player in the group runs his business out of Burlington and moved, I believe, into Ancaster, wanting the airport to conform to his lifestyle (no increased development or flights)… much like someone moving next to a pig farm then demanding the farmer get rid of the smell (pigs)).
Hamilton politicians are prime examples of why there should be limited terms in office and no career politicians. Many (ie Merulla) only do what will get them re-elected in their ward rather than what is best for the community as a whole.
I don’t know what’s worse, some the “Chicken Little”, nervous nellies of negativity politicians that keep getting re-elected or the people who keep re-electing them (IMO, much like the wasted NDP vote).
So frustrating to thinks how great this city COULD be…
…
Here's a bit of reading about the JLC in London from wiki. Not as large of a project as a new stadium here have to admit:
The John Labatt Centre is a sports-entertainment centre in London, Ontario, Canada -- the largest such centre in southwestern Ontario.
The John Labatt Centre, usually referred to as the "JLC", opened on October 11, 2002. It is named after John Labatt, founder of the Labatt brewery in London. Labatt still has a large brewery in London to the present day, although its head office was moved to Toronto in the early 1990s.
The JLC was built, in part, to be the new downtown home of London's Ontario Hockey League team, the London Knights, replacing the 40-year-old London Ice House in the south end of the city, near Highway 401.
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Ownership and management
The John Labatt Centre is owned by the London Civic Centre Corporation, an example of a public-private partnership. The Corporation is owned in turn by multiple parties, including The City of London, EllisDon, and Global Spectrum, the Philadelphia-based company that also manages the centre, and operates more than 40 other arenas, stadiums and convention centres. Because of this, the Philadelphia Flyers customarily have played a preseason game at the John Labatt Centre each year. -
History, construction and controversy
The John Labatt Centre was built at a cost of approximately $42-million by the London, Ontario-based construction company, EllisDon Corp., builders of Toronto's Rogers Centre. The land was purchased for $10 million.
The construction of this sports-entertainment centre was decided upon as a part of the city government's overall effort to revitalize the city's downtown. As part of that effort, London city council committed to building the centre, and agreed to fund much of the cost, which has amounted to about $4.5 million a year in debt financing so far. Another controversial part of the management deal is that while revenue at the centre has been much higher than forecast, the city's share has been minimal, about $100,000 a year, with much of the balance going to the London Civic Centre Corporation, the public-private partnership that owns the arena. Many businesses close to the centre also report that they have benefitted as a result of the increased number of people coming downtown.
...
I sincerely hope Bob is mentioning Burlington only to get the ball rolling.
If this team moves to Burlington, count me out of buying another ticket. That would totally be turning their backs on the city. Regardless of how the politicians may be perceived to be boneheaded, this would be taking that beef to the fans and citizens of this city.
Hamilton is showing signs of revitalization. Let's not pull the rug out from underneath that by yanking a major part of the identity of the city and plunking it down in Burlington.
That, as someone proudly born in Hamilton, would be a real slap in the face.
This can be something that accelerates the regrowth within the core of Hamilton. And, as far as parking goes -- whining about parking downtown is simply that -- whining. I don't think I've ever had to pay more than $5 to park for a Bulldogs game.
If infrastructure develops as it should, public transit will be more accessible than before --- and that's always the better way when attending any events.
When Bob was asked the question about Aldershot, he mistakeningly thought it was in Hamilton.
He then replied the only way he could, that he wants the stadium in Hamilton [b]but[b] they would play where ever a new stadium is.
He emphasized this again this morning that the location he wants the stadium is in Hamilton, Ontario.
We have to change the way the city is run. We should go away from the Ward system and elect our officials at-large and with a two-term limit.
This will stop the "kingdom" building by people who couldn't get jobs in the real world and ruin this great city.
I can't believe that any councillor would say no to private money, reducing significantly the amount of public resources needed.
If you think that fixing Ivor Wynne is an answer...the latest budget amount for repairs is close to $25 million. This will definetly balloon to at least double. Don't forget that the City Hall reno was only supposed to cost $42 million. Latest estimates are now at $125 million.
Here's my take from down the QEW. Hamilton in recent memory doesn't seem to have been blessed with many progressive minded municipal politicians. They seem to be satisfied with the status quo and keeping the lid on things. I drive to and through Hamilton quite often and if anyone can see any serious revitalization going on downtown, please show me. On the other hand, drive through the Toronto core and there are construction cranes and huge excavations everywhere. Believe me, I'm no fan of Toronto tax-garb politicians but they can get their asses in gear from time to time and get projects completed.
I just can't see Hamilton council coming up with anything close to the millions of dollars that would be needed to supplement the PanAm contribution towards a new CFL-suitable stadium. Bob Young will close the estimated gap of $94 million somewhat but at a minimum, I'd say that at least $50 million would have to come from the City. (Also, we all know that whatever they're estimating the costs to be today, they will escalate long before the first shovel hits the soil.) I don't think the folks at City have it in them to fork over that much public money to a stadium.
If you're a new stadium supporter, I think you''ll look back at this as yet another wasted opportunity. My own preference would be to renovate IWS, as dilapidated as it's getting by putting some real dollars into it.
An Argo-Cat fan
Eisenberger recognizes that this opportunity echoes what happened when Ivor Wynne was first built...government pumping money into infastructure to create jobs during a depression. If this fails, it won't be Eisenberger's fault.
Council has to look at this expenditure as one that will create jobs and a site that will contribute to the city's coffers for years. They can't just look at it as "50 million spent...that's a lot of money...we're scared to spend that much."
The revitalization is going to be far more muted than anything you’re seeing in Toronto. Quick to come to mind is James Street north with art studios moving in, condo’s by the Go Station…I think those are on James Street as well (…those new Undermount buildings), that building across from Copps. Trust me…when you’re roaming around the core as much as I am, you can sense it. It’s a few less abandoned shops, a few more people milling about, more people with places to go…It’s not massive cranes putting up 65 story condo’s every week.
My only question is whether there’s more bang for the buck by upgrading Ivor Wynne – and allowing other public funds to better serve the public. In case you haven’t heard, we do have a pipe crisis brewing in the older city. Like in Toronto – these need to be replace. Also, difficult economic times mean there’s going to be massive strains on our our social services. They’ll need to be funded to keep people alive.
I just wonder…if John Labatt Centre was built for $42 million dollars – what could be done with, say $30 million in upgrades/ reno’s to the current stadium? We wouldn’t have to waste any funds acquiring lands, putting shovels into the ground, running the infrastructure requirements – we could cut right to the chase. Stabilize the structure and build whatever bells and whistles you want. Perhaps it could add a tier of box seats – no idea. Not sure what the location would allow for.
Anyway…I’d rather see a creatively revamped Ivor Wynne (even if it’s at a similar cost to the taxpayers), then a poorly constructed new stadium that isn’t equipped to stand half as long as Ivor Wynne.
Like others have said, you are going to pay to park.
I think what we are going to get is a stadium near the airport to tell you the truth. I think it makes the most sense.
Downtown is too crowded and there is no space. The waterfront would be awesome but you already have houses and such down there and you can’t build all the things Bob wants to build.
At the airport, you can basically build whatever you want. The big coup for Bob is that you will have to pay for parking. Look at Buffalo, RWS is in the middle of nowhere and you have to pay 25 bucks to park there. We should be able to tailgate then if there is a parking lot right beside the stadium.
I park for free at IWS on a street and walk 5 minutes. I have parked at the centre before and don’t know why you want to torture yourself with that huge walk. There is plenty of good parking by the stadium.
8-10 dollars to park downtown? Are you parking at City Hall? I found a place where after 6 during the week and all weekends is $2.00!!! It’s the same distance as parking at city hall.
I think that with Bob Young officially on line now and willing to spend tens of millions of dollars on the new stadium project, our politicians will wake up and get this place built. I further think that it will be located at the west harbour front, which suits me fine, although I would still prefer the airport lands, where arguments against, have been grossly exaggerated.
One question remains on my mind. In view of our reputation in Hamilton for botching things up, will the Pan Am games committee give us the games?
The Redbirds were in the New York Penn League which was a single A league.
I would like to see a link or article on them building a new stadium.
I don’t think Hamilton is a baseball city. I remember going to the games and the stands were pretty full BUT you have to remember 2 things, 1) The stadium only held 2,000 people at most and 2) The tickets were free!!!
The rumour over the fall was that the Blue Jays were looking at Hamilton as a possible location for their AAA team as Syracuse is no longer their affiliate and have moved the team to Las Vegas.
Would anyone support a minor league baseball team? We have one still playing at BAS but no one goes. We don’t even support minor hockey in this city (Bulldogs & Red Wings), why in the world would we support baseball?
First, as much as I love IWS, I think we have to acknowledge that the costs over time to keep it going will be greater than the costs of new...I will admit, it won't look that way in the present, but it will be like financing a BIG purchase with a high-rate credit card...or fixing up your 20 year old car...always something to pay for.
As to the progressiveness (???) of Hamilton politicians and many citizens, referring to recent history does not do it justice. I am in my mid 40's and remember the FIGHT we had getting the north stand built in 1971. For a city who's motto is (or was) "The Ambitious City," Hamilton has always had small dreams, which have been nurtured by the populace and therefore, by its politicians. Already mentioned was the contribution of the late, GREAT Vic Copps, who was an amazing mayor because of the vision he had for the city, and with the exception of Jack McDonald (already noted), the people in charge of this city look to do everything on the cheap...and the citizens encourage it. Again, I remember spending two years at Stelco, arguing with guys that you gotta move forward or die as a community, with the repsonse being, "fine, just don't ask me to pay ANYTHING for the progress."
And now, we are faced with another choice, to participate in, or abstain from another event that could make Hamilton a name for itself...and the small-minded politicians of Hamilton see it as a threat to...what? Fiscal responsibility? Fine...pay for the basics and Hamilton will remain a place that shuffles money and jobs around within her borders and stay a small-time player. Yes, McMaster will invest in growth, some business will eventually expand, but nothing major. Or the Merulla's of the city can grow some b****, start looking at the Pan-Am games as an opportunity, and INVEST, not SPEND, money to make money. And if another branch of government will throw in over half the cost of something (alright, maybe less than half for a bigger facility), then we have to start making these people listen to us.
And since Bob is on the case, then I think we as football fans need to realize that we need to kick in as well. I, for one, know the value of a Tiger-Cat ticket; look around at any "professional" sport team, and you will see that virtually NO ONE pays less for tix than we do. I have lived in four sities that have NFL teams, and you can't even get a parking space for what I am paying for a Section 6 ticket in three of them (St. Louis, Philadelphia and Chicago). And yes, I do realize that the quality of the product has been....um....er....uh....well....questionable lately. But if that is to change AND we are to move into a more contemporary facility, we have to make this happen. I would support and participate in ANY effort that gets this done...including paying more for my ticket to help pay for the stadium. Sorry to say Ti-Cat fans, but if we want this, WE are gonna hafta help make it happen.
'Cause if it don't, the city I grew up in, the city I still have such great affection for (even living in the Great Satan down the road) will dy up and blow away as surely as the downtown already has and is...