Blocked Conversion Attempt (MTL:HAM)

CFL Talk
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Question:

Why was the blocked Montreal extra point in the Touchdown Atlantic game blown dead?

I thought conversion attempts in the CFL were live and the points available to both teams on the field. The Tiger-Cats recovered the block and it looked to be going the other way.

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As far as I can tell, the ref’s shouldn’t have, at least according to the 2011 rulebook, article 5, page 30 located here.

http://www.cfl.ca/page/game_rule_rule1
"A team scoring a touchdown may attempt to add to its score by means of a scrimmage play from any point between the hash marks on or outside the opponent’s five-yard line, as follows:

1 point – By kicking a field goal or,
2 points – By scoring a touchdown by means of a ball carrying or passing play

[b]The ball shall remain in play until a score is made or the play has been terminated.

If Team B legally gains possession during an unsuccessful convert attempt (i.e.interception of forward pass, recovery of fumble or blocked kick), it may score two points by advancing the ball across Team A’s Goal Line. If the play terminates with Team B in possession in its own Goal Area or in the Field of Play, there shall be no score."[/b]


Although I think the argument might be, that it’s not considered blocked if it passes the line of scrimmage and doesn’t go through the uprights, it’s considered missed and not blocked. As far as I can tell though, even a miss that remains in play shouldn’t be whistled dead until the ball is retrieved and a tackle occurs.

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Thanks for reading Hammer,

I never liked reading :slight_smile:

That said, even if the kick were not technically blocked.. why is it a dead ball? I though a kick in flight only became dead if it struck the goal post assembly. Why then is a ball caught in the endzone by a returner not dead?

I guess the refs messed up here. Someone got whistle happy and the play could not continue thereafter.

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Here’s the dead ball section.

The ball is dead: • Whenever a field official blows the whistle • When an official has signalled a score • When the ball goes Out of Bounds • When a forward pass is declared incomplete • When a kicked ball strikes the opponent’s goal post assembly in flight, without first touching the ground, a player or an official • When the ball carrier is tackled and the forward progress has been halted (tackling is defined as the act of grasping or encircling a ball carrier with hands and arms) • When the ball carrier behind the line of scrimmage is firmly in the grasp and control of a tackler to the extent that the ball cannot be thrown • When a ball carrier is tackled and driven back towards the ball carrier’s own Goal Line, an official must assume that an attempt was being made to advance the ball and that only the actual contact with an opponent prevented such advance. Therefore, the most forward point of advance shall be considered the point where the ball became dead • When the ball carrier is contacted by an opponent and loses balance so that a portion of the body, other than hands or feet touches the ground, the ball shall be dead at the point where it was held when touching the ground, or the point where the ball was held when contacted, whichever is the furthest point of advance • When the quarterback, in possession of the ball, intentionally kneels on the ground during the last three minutes of a half • When the quarterback, in possession of the ball, dives in a feet first sliding motion, the ball shall be declared dead at the point it was held when another part of the quarterback’s body, other than hands or feet, touch the ground • When a player, having possession of the ball in their own Goal Area, intentionally kneels on the ground • When a ball carrier is on the ground and, in the judgment of the official, is not attempting to advance the ball, the official shall immediately declare the ball dead.

NOTES
A ball lying on the ground and not in possession of a player is not dead. A ball striking an official is not dead except on a forward pass.


So really, the first rule applies, at least to the player, he has to stop or get a delay of game penalty. However the official should have a reason for blowing the ball dead. As far as I can tell, there wasn’t any in this case. Once again though, this is the 2011 rulebook. Then 2013 rulebook isn’t posted on the site, but I don’t recall any such rule change being made. Be great if the league chirped in on this one. That could have been two more points for Hamilton in this case, because McCollogh looked like he was off to the races, Boulay was the only player who had a remote chance of catching him.

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[url=http://www.cfl.ca/article/scoring-on-a-blocked-convert-attempt]http://www.cfl.ca/article/scoring-on-a- ... rt-attempt[/url]

The above link explained by Higgins says, Defensive team B can score on blocked convert attempted by team A. As stated above by Hammer blown dead because blocked after ball traveled beyond line of scrimmage? or some other reason? Hope the league does comment on the said play.

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That’s just it, according to the dead ball section, it shouldn’t have been blown dead by the official.

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AGAIN!!!

The extra point in the Montreal:Toronto game following Toronto's 3rd quarter TD was blocked and blown dead. When did this rule change and where is it written?

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I’ve been up and down the rule book and there is obviously a lot missing from the online book. The rules are there, but there are no “situations” that help officials interpret the rules.

What the rule book does say is that if the ball crosses the line of scrimmage it is not a blocked kick.

SECTION 3 – BLOCKED KICK
Article 1 – Definition
It is a deflected kick not a blocked kick if, on a kick from scrimmage, the ball is
touched by or touches an opponent or a player of the kicking team who is offside and
then crosses the line of scrimmage. Such touching of the ball shall be disregarded,
and the Kicking team players must allow 5 yards to an opponent attempting to gain
possession.

But there is nothing, in this rule book, under Converts in Rule 3 or Rule 1 Section 4 Dead Ball.

I’m going to assume that the interpretation is, since the ball has crossed the line of scrimmage, and is therefore not considered blocked, the play is dead on an unsuccessful convert attempt as soon as the ball hits the ground.

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Yeah but I’ve never seen a field goal that’s deflected and blown dead from scrimmage. I also haven’t seen rules that indicate the convert is different in any way from a play from scrimmage aside from points at stake and clock rules under 3 minutes in the 2nd and 4th QTRs.

It also doesn’t seem to be an issue to casual fans or the media since not a peep was heard after the occurrence in Touchdown Atlantic.

Perhaps it is only live both ways when explicitly going for 2 points?

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As I said, I’m assuming. The officials should have a rulebook that includes situations to help interpret certain rules. I made some assumptions based on what I found in the online rule book. Would be interested to hear how the league interprets those rules.

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From the 2013 CFL Rule Book:

The ball shall remain in play until a score is made or the play has been terminated.

If Team B legally gains possession during an unsuccessful convert attempt (i.e. interception of forward pass, recovery of fumble or blocked kick), it may score two points by advancing the ball across Team A’s Goal Line.


A tipped kick on a convert that doesn’t go through the uprights sounds like an unsuccessful convert attempt to me. It’s not, however, specifically listed in parentheses, and “i.e.” is supposed to be used to provide a complete list of possibilities, as opposed to “e.g.”, which is used to provide some examples for clarification. If the list is meant as an exhaustive list, then the play would be whistled dead once it hit the ground. But given that many people use the two abbreviations interchangeably (and incorrectly), my guess is that the list is meant more as a list of some possible scenarios.

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My point. There is some room for interpretation. Would love to hear the leagues answer.

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A kicked ball that's deflected and continues across the line of scrimmage is treated the same as a punt, with no-yards rules and everything (although I don't know how such a penalty would be applied on a convert attempt -- likely on the kickoff) and the other team has the chance to return it. Deflecting a kick does not end a play, as I have seen deflected kicks go through the uprights for a score. Returning a deflected kick across your opponents' goal line results in a 2-point score.

I was hoping they would show replays on both those plays, but they never did. It would have been good to see them from a different angle.

The only reason those plays should have been blown dead is if, in Touchdown Atlantic, the Ticat player who recovered the ball was down by contact, and if the ball this week struck the goal post. Having not seen a replay of either play from a different angle, I have no idea whether either of those happened, but I don't think so.

Be good to hear from Higgins about this.

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If they were correct in making the call the league would come right out and say the correct call was made just like they did in the Hamilton/ Montreal game last week with the fumble that was never clearly recovered (in the league's eyes). I am assuming that because we haven't heard anything from the league about this now twice that the incorrect call was made.

They should educate the officials on this it has now happened in two games this season and with the playoffs coming next week they should make sure all officials are on the same page.