Yup, they were bad no question, no arguing from this guy on that one.
Argos still have a core of 25 000 fans. That alone is a good enough foundation to support a CFL team and Braley needs to get Pinball to do what Bobby Ackles did and get some influential people in Toronto to start something similar to "The Waterboys" in BC. If Pinball won't do it find someone who can and put a winning team on the field and there is no problem in getting 45 000 fans for the Argos.
I totaly agree with this statment, as a fan of the lions ,and i saw what happend in bc before bob ackles got there David Braily was running out of hope, until he hired Bob Ackles, then everything changed, know if David Brailey can find some one like that again the argos will be one of the strongest francizes in the league. He did that here he can do it in TO too.
As for TO not being a very good sports town , It is a great winning sports town , if the team wins people will come out, just like here in Vancouver/.
Having a base of 25,000 fans is still excellent, but the Argos have to win that is what it is all about.
Thank you Mr. Obvious?
Certainly that is one highly unflattering comment on Toronto, as every single US city I can think of with a football, basketball, and/or baseball team (and to a lesser degree for NHL hockey in the US unlike in Canada) is full of "fair weather" fans and homers who show up en masse when it just so happens their usually non-dominant team in any given sport is a winning playoff side.
It looks to me like Toronto's situation as you describe with fans showing up in herds only when the team wins a whole lot, though Metro Toronto has a larger population than most of these other metro areas that come to mind, does not make it special or distinctive.
And really is a base of 25K fans for such a large city a continually successful franchise the makings of a successful franchise? Or will Braley, like many a sports owner not wanting to let go of a financial loser, just end up feeding the "alligator" in exchange for some overall intangible sum comprised of political favours, tax write-offs, and subsidies? :?
Yeah but we are talking a .200 football team that traded its only drawing star to its cross town rival.
Rita you fool !
And really is a base of 25K fans for such a large city a continually successful franchise the makings of a successful franchise? Or will Braley, like many a sports owner not wanting to let go of a financial loser, just end up feeding the "alligator" in exchange for some overall intangible sum comprised of political favours, tax write-offs, and subsidies?
from were the Argos were a few years ago yes they have come a long way, but i think they can become one the top francizes in the league if they win, the CFL has come such a long ways over the last 10 years, it is cool to watch cfl football again.
I'm still pissed off about that. If you have to trade your only proven receiver, trade him to anyone but HAMILTON. UGH :x
trade him to BC or Calgary or a non-rival. Every time he catches a ball against the Argos it hurts a little more
It has been stated many times before, no other teams made an offer for ABIII. Hamilton was the only team to offer the Argos anything for him. You can't make a trade with B.C or Calgary or a non-rival when there is no offer on the table.
That's cause Rita has no friends. Cause if you have friends you can call in a favour somewhere and say I need to park my best player till the end of the season... Trading Bruce to Hamilton was a stab in the heart of the fans as expressed above.
LOL - but you're math doesn't include operational costs, financial models or the fact TFC and the Raptors play in smaller venues...... by your logic the Argos should be doing better than the Leafs.....
Ticket sales and TV ratings are not the be all and end all when it comes to the financials in sports.
well realistically ticket sales do play a huge part in the cfl. its a gate driven league
but.. more realistically...
say the jays avg 10,000 and thats not true, they avg more like 15,000 but they play what? 80 home games? 80 x 15 = 1,200,000. per year
raptors avg what? 15000? x what? 42 home games = 630,000.
TFc draws what? 20,000 in a 20,000 seat arena? dunno how many home games they play per year tho.
argos avg lets say 24000... x 9 = 216,000 ish...
WAY LESS THAN what the raptors leafs jays, probably tfc draw in a year..
for a city or an area with a population of about what? 6 7 million? THATS PATHETIC.
That is why most cities care about baseball more than football when it comes down to stadiums that cities pay for, baseball teams bring in more fans than football because of the number of games. I was reading something about this as it concerns Oakland Raiders wanting a new stadium and with just 10 home games a year or so, it doesn't add up the article I was reading was saying.
Look at the San Fran 49'ers and all their success, they still play in an old outdated stadium but the Giants there got a new stadium.
The Argos could get more fans, but I've heard from Argo fans that security for the Rogers' centre act like gestapo... ruining the game for a lot fans... which in turn has turned them off actually going to the games. Seems to me Braley has to make sure that the game is enjoyable for the fans , win or lose.
This is sort of like what I saw when working in security also within some security and local law enforcement circles on the Virginia side of Metro DC ...basically that area remains too much like a police state that is quite noticeable by the average US citizen despite the legitimate need for an elevated security presence. The 2005 Inauguration of George W Bush for example had everything but the tanks in parade formation a la the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, or North Korea and was a shameful day in our history whatever one thinks of that guy.
Truly effective security remains behind the scenes and quiet all the same to keep matters smooth overall in DC now, but in Las Vegas you'll find a great share of dumbed-down unprofessional thugs behind the scenes more than in Metro DC with a few too many "professional" thugs.
So here's my question on Toronto too then in that regard. Are these fascist jerks and bullies just at the Rogers' Centre, probably mostly 'roided up underqualified dumb bouncer graduates like we have down here about anywhere with the low-budget security firms and those working also illegally in that capacity as thugs in any given state, or is this the case in many areas in and around Toronto or Ottawa too?
Certainly I could not blame anyone for not wanting to spend any money wherever someone is looking over their shoulder much of the time. That's certainly not entertainment and indicative, as is common down here especially in Metro DC, of "misplaced priorities" when average folks are harassed and the real criminals thrive quietly all the same. All this as of course some of the wrong folks continue to be able to board planes as one example ... :roll:
What's the average Toronto Argos (or CFL) ticket price?
You guys make me laugh with your hate for Toronto.
Toronto is only Canadian sports city that has a pro baseball and basketball team. Other Canadian cities can barely support 2 pro sports teams unlike Toronto.
As for Argos, they're a joke in GTA. Sorry, but the fact CFL tickets are cheaper than other Sports tickets in Toronto, but yet fail to sell out speaks volume how much Argos are a failure in GTA. They have no one but to blame themselves for current state of their team. Also another issue is GTA is a very different city now. Sports like Football and Baseball are declining while other sports such as Basketball and Soccer are growing thanks to immigration. Also I remember reading a stat claiming that minorities make up 50% of Toronto’s population now. How come Argos/CFL doesn’t promote their product to minorities in GTA?
i dont hate toronto... i just dont respect the wanting to be American. Nor do i respect they way they follow trends and depend on the media and MLSE to determine what they like and Dont like. Dont hate them... Just cant respect the lack of individualality mentality... Just like people In my small town who want to Do everything like the Big City... nice enough people... just kinda dumb.
Wow thanks that breaks it down well for me to understand better as an American though I have never been to Toronto but rather to other parts of Ontario.
They sound from your descrption much like the wannabes and phonies we have in some areas down here like in Philly, Metro Washington DC, NJ, Ohio, Atlanta, and somewhat Las Vegas but for only that most folks in each of the above areas are not genuinely nice people in my experience and definitely all too often more than just kind of dumb. :thdn:
I call these homers often bojacks, douchebags, and/or losers when merited too.
So many more places here with far better folks to check out now though.
paola- For the Record, i like americans. Most of my friends are americans i met while touring the states during my music career. so dont think that i feel all americans are simple or dumb. Its just hard to respect someone who wants to be like someone else.
Toronto people are scared to Be Canadian. I dont know why. I am a bit old school and still believe a bit in National Pride. It kinda reminds me when i toured the States... and i was in St.paul... People who use all the things the American Government gave them, but Complained non stop about how opressed by the Bush Goverment they were... even though they seemed very well off to me. How do you respect someone from the suburnbs who tries to pass themselves off as a Cowboy? similar to Toronto wanting to be american.
Mostly good points ...the best answer I can give is that there is far less interest amongst immigrant groups and ethnic minorities in gridiron football compared to especially soccer ...it long has not been an accident that massive LA has not had a football team but for years now has TWO MLS soccer teams plus a ton of Mexican fans for the Mexican National Team as well as for teams in the Mexican league. Team Mexico even plays many an exhibition match in LA, Chicago, Houston, etc. against other countries.
This discussion would be well worth a whole new thread in itself, but for another time and perhaps another place. Excellent comments and agree totally.
I'll give you just one example from Metro Washington DC that ought make the average Canadian chuckle too. A bunch of those suburban uppity types used to buy SUVs and brag to friends about their off-road capabilities as usually they were just gas-sucking mobile couches for overweight people who love to shop on weekends especially at Wal-Mart or Home Depot (like your Rona).
And then when it even rained a lot let alone snowed? Not only did these phonies usually not drive them in such weather but they kept them in garages, but also whenever they did God forbid they themselves were all more hazardous on the roads than any conditions but ice!
There are so many other examples for such people in all the areas I mentioned, especially in the suburbs, too busy living their wannabe political or wealthy or famous lives that they have no time to make any true friends ... I can't stand these folks anywhere either, and thank goodness they are clustered mostly in certain spots that I can avoid more it seems. :thdn: