Avon Cobourne

Should he be inserted into the lineup to add a bit of character and edge this Saturday?

He is certainly a leader when called upon. We need someone to bring some grit.

I'm confident he would do anything (including running back kicks) if it meant he could see the field.

Your thoughts?

Not at the expense (not dressing) of Walker. Cobourne is an expensive insurance policy that should be used only if/when needed because of poor play by, or injury to, Walker. If the plan was to sit a B. Grant, in favour of some creative plan for using both IMP backs at the same time, it might be interested enough to take the risk of losing our insurance.

This is a no-brainer to me. Avon should be your starting tailback, with Walker as the Thigpen-type change of pace speed guy. Walker can't grind out tough yards on the ground, can't block, and can't function effectively as a receiver out of the backfield. You keep him as your every-down back and you are sabotaging the offense IMO.

How about sitting Onrea Jones? Grant at least sees the field, whereas Jones had his butt parked on the bench the entire game against BC. This has been debated in another thread, but I think the team would be better off with Cobourne on the 42 and Jones off it. If the team is going to have an offensive player who doesn't play special teams on the active roster, it makes more sense to me for that player to be a veteran like Cobourne than a rookie like Jones.

You can't be serious.

Walker leads the CFL in yards from scrimmage with 322.
He leads the CFL in tds with 3 in 2 games.
He averages 9.4 yards per carry (again first in the CFL).
He has 169 yards rushing (2nd in CFL).
He has 153 yds receiving (8th in CFL, first on Ticats).

He is on pace for 1521 rushing yards and 1377 receiving yards, and 27 touchdowns.......!!!!!!!!

He has been nothing short of spectacular. All he needs is the ball more often.

Only in Hamilton could a guy have a debut like Walker and have fans talk about replacing him!!

Welcome to Hamilton Chevy!!

Our leading rusher, leading receiver, leading td scorer.....and you want HIM replaced??

WOW.

Not replaced, just re-assigned. As discipline said, Avon is MUCH better at pass-protection.

We’ve played a grand total of two games so far. Plenty of players have a handful of great games and even a full season and then fade, never to be heard from again. Furthermore, Walker has been very inconsistent running the ball. His YPC is vastly inflated by two big runs. Take away those runs and he’s getting killed at the LOS. Let’s not even get into his inability to block. And as another poster, who actually took the time to read my post, noted, I’m not saying you sit Walker. You simply use him in a different capacity, one where his strengths – breakaway speed, the threat of a big play – can be leveraged without the team suffering from his weaknesses – poor blocking, inability to grind out tough yards consistently, non-existing receiver skills.

I agree with almost everything you said, expect Walker is a pretty decent receiver. One of those long runs you cite was actually a screen pass that he took 95 yards. It's a very small sample size, and I will not say that he's an all-world receiver, but to say his receiving skills are nonexistent is incorrect.

Jones is there in case Williams or Grant go down and is a back-up to the returners as well. My original comment, suggesting sitting B.Grant, was based on starters only. But, the fact that Jones has return experience, would put him above Grant anyway when considering back-ups who are unlikely to see the field.

Ok, fair enough, although I wouldn't really classify RB screens in the receiver category. If a running back can't execute a screen, he's got problems. :slight_smile: I was speaking more about short curls and crosses, wheel routes, ins, and hooks where he makes something after the catch without a cadre of linemen blocking for him.

I understand why Jones is there, but he didn't see the field at all on Friday. Who is there in case Walker goes down? Darcy Brown? Daryl Stephenson? Sam Fournier?

I don't think Cobourne will supplant Walker as the starter, so my comment was based on the entire 42-man gameday roster. If it was my choice, I'd scratch Jones and put Cobourne in his place.

That's a fair comment and if that's the case, we don't know how good a receiver Walker is. He hasn't had many of those passes thrown his way. Maybe it's because he can't, maybe it's because they just haven't called those types of plays. I don't know. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that we need more time before we decide what kind of player Walker is, and I mean that in both respects, positive and negative.

Are you saying we should cut Cobourne?

yes yes yes!!! for god sakes Cortez use your head!!!

Stats are stats....they are the facts....you can't count the short gains and discount the long runs....they ALL count...that's what makes it an average......

His strengths are running with the ball....and breaking long runs for touchdowns....and leading the league in so many categories that you'd have to be crazy to use him less.....using him MORE is what's needed....so far he has been the Ticats MOP and maybe the league's MOP too......its absolutely crazy to suggest playing him less.....

At least the coaching staff agree with me.....and again....Chevy must read some of these posts and wonder what a guy has to do....!

Walker has caught the ball well so far, so I'm not sure how someone can say he's not an effective receiver out of the backfield at this point. Also he hasn't had many opportunities to run the ball between the tackles, nor has there been much room there for him to make anything happen. So I'm not ready to even judge whether or not he's been effective in that area as well. As TommyBoy1 stated, the numbers so far have been outstanding, yet some people have done nothing but bash the guy on what they think he can't do.

You can't make evaluations purely on the average. It's an oversimplification of the facts. You can have someone whose average rushing yards is 5 because he runs 5 yards every time he gets the ball or because half the time he gets 0 and half the time he gets 10 (or because of any number of other possibilities). I imagine a coach would want the guy who can run 5 yards every time, because he's more consistent.

That's one reason why Cobourne was an upgrade over Cobb, even though they had comparable rushing yards. Cobourne was more consistent. Cobb had a lot of 2 yard runs, with a very long run every now and then that inflated his average. Cobourne, on the other hand didn't have as many long runs, but he did have more runs that were around 5 yards, which is what you need if you want to get first downs.

I'm not saying Walker is the new Cobb, just using his stats to show why you can't just look at the average.

Stats are stats, but you have to parse them properly to put them in the right context. What the stats tell me is that he's great at breaking open big runs every once in a while, but lousy at churning out the 5-yard gains you need to move the sticks. For every time he busts a big play, he's part of why five or six other drives stall and you have to punt. If you think your running back is going to bust 90-yard TD drives every game, you have, with no offense intended, a very naive idea of how the season is going to play out. You gain success in this league at the tailback position by being a workhorse, being good for 4-6 yards on the ground on a regular basis, protecting your quarterback, not dashing for 90 yards and the end zone once and then getting stuffed at the LOS the remainder of the time.

His strengths are running with the ball....and breaking long runs for touchdowns....and leading the league in so many categories that you'd have to be crazy to use him less.....using him MORE is what's needed....so far he has been the Ticats MOP and maybe the league's MOP too......its absolutely crazy to suggest playing him less.....

At least the coaching staff agree with me.....and again....Chevy must read some of these posts and wonder what a guy has to do....!


What a guy has to do? Perhaps get acquainted with something called 'blocking'. It's how you keep your QB upright. That's for starters. Then learn how to grind out those hard yards in the trenches, those four, five, and six-yard gains that aren't flashy, but that give your team a fresh set of downs, keep your offense in rhythm, and allow your defense some time to recharge on the bench, while wearing down the other team. With Burris still adjusting to the team / system, Giguere hurt, and a patchwork O-line, it's imperative that the Cats add some consistency to the ground game.

I'm not just looking at average....I'm also looking at total yards....yards rushing....yards receiving.....td's....no fumbles.....it all adds up to a spectacular start anyway you look at it.....and he's a rookie....if he needs to improve his blocking, then, help him improve his blocking! It's easier than trying to teach someone else how to run like he does!....He doesn't have to block when he has the ball and is running for touchdowns anyway...if you want to criticize blocking, then you should start and finish the conversation with the O line, not with our best player to date....

Thankfully the posters who criticize him aren't the coaches making the decisions......

I'm going to quietly face-palm my way out of this discussion.

Walker is not a grinder. He does, however, provide the threat every time he touches the ball to break it long. And unlike Cobb, he can take the ball up the middle if given a small hole. We saw in Friday's game how that threat can affect a defence - BC's defence was keying so much on him at one point that it allowed Burris to run the ball. And then when the defence didn't know which one to cover, Burris dumped it to Stephenson for his touchdown.