First you need to get your facts right. He is NOT repaying the loan with property taxes. Property taxes only come into the picture if Creswin defaults. Creswin has until 2012 to line up tenants for The Elms AND provide documentation that it will be loaned money by a financial institution to repay the loan. If Creswin cannot do that then the land will be sold to someone else and the property taxes will be used to repay the loan. If Creswin can get the loan and has the tenant then they will be able to purchase the Polo Park land for fair market value.
More facts you need to get straight - Canwest’s problems stem from Izzy Asper over-expanding the company, David Asper has nothing to do with the Human Rights Museum (that is his sister’s project) and his tantrum was how many years ago and he resigned from the Bombers board because of it.
…where has the facility been officially ‘dumbed down’…There is discussion about the ‘cover for the stands’ that’s all…I’m sure it can be modified or at least constructed so it can be incorporated later…I think everyone wants a 'classy facility and from what i’ve read, nothing else has changed ,to give the impression that it won’t be all that was promised…Sorry wolverine…got to bail on you on this one…Don’t believe a lot of the baloney that’s being passed around…it’s probably politically motivated…and you know where that goes straight into file 13
It has been dumbed down a LOT, The four corner towers that were going to house the high end concessions like bars and restaurants are gone, the arches are gone, a lot of the Brick fascia is gone, now he is saying that the city needs to pay an extra 28 million for cladding roofing. The Bubble cover is probably also missing from the figures.
If you understood how construction industry works you would know that there will be no way to tell if the 28 million is representative of the roof or if Asper is trying to pass some other costs and having it "portionned" to the costs of the roof.
This thing looks nothing like the renderings that he used to sell the project.
...i don't know where you're getting your info from hfxtc but i suggest you get a new source....It was just announced that the ONLY change was to do with the canopy overing the stands...The rest of the venture is as was promised and in place.. The restaurant concourse , jumbotrons etc. have not been changed...IF you're going by the first renderings of the Asper proposal 3 years ago....certainly it's been changed...that's no revelation...What the govts. and Asper have agreed on is in place....EXCEPT cost overruns on the canopy and that will be worked out shortly...Quit trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill :lol:
Popz, I'm your #1 fan and I WANT TO BELIEVE like you... but man this thing is looking sketchy.
We will get a stadium and it'll be awesome but I've spent a good couple hours tonight looking for pros and cons against Asper ownership. I'm so very confused as to who's getting what, but from what I can gather Asper is benefiting from this deal HUGE.
There is the big bruhaha about cost overruns, but its Aspers company doing the building
Polo Park is a big deal real estate wise and the city is giving that up?
Anyways theres more but im a couple deep but this deal stinks. The prov govmnt should just take over the project imo, and keep bombers community.
…AND Wettenhal,Young, and Braley don’t seem to be faring too badly…The Bombers have failed with community ownership in recent times…look at the last twenty year Cup drought…Canadinns is a crumbling mess and without the new digs (initiated by Asper i might add) this franchise would be facing a hard-sell and disaster…We have never been privately owned but i think it’s time…Failure by Asper ,would only end in the franchise reverting back to community ownership in any event…that’s part of the deal. I don’t think we’ve got a helluva lot to lose and a lot to gain
You can bail on me pappa, s’ok So far the only major change being discussed is the roof that we are aware of, I’ll grant you that, but it is (hopefully not was) a significant feature of the proposed structure. I am sure that there have been some smaller details we aren’t aware of that have been edited already because of costs that people unfamiliar with the finer details of the original design will not be aware of. The problem is I sense this is just a foreshadowing of things to come. They started digging without a final plan, or what was believed to be a final plan which someone now wants to renegotiate, and that is a major problem. What happens in 6 months when they miscalculated the cost of something else or the price of something else goes up? If they cut the roof from the design to save money now with the hope that it gets added on in the future (how likely is that?), then it becomes easier to cut or downgrade something else. You get a smaller scoreboard for instance, or the glass so you can see the field from the concourse is replaced with concrete, or you put in 1/2 the number of washrooms as originally proposed, maybe you don’t put seats with cupholders everywhere like planned, etc. If the province agrees to cover a cost overrun on the roof, then next time there’s a issue Creswin goes back to the province saying its gonna cost more gimme gimme. If the province doesn’t cave in, what does Creswin do next time there’s a funding issue. My concern is that building this thing is gonna turn into a fiasco over the next 18 months because there are too many horses pulling in opposite directions. As a fan, I have every right to want a great new facility to go watch my team play in, not just a new facility that isn’t CanadInns. I want to see this thing get built and hope this is just a rocky start and things go smoothly from here on out, however I don’t have that confidence right now. If the city, province, and Asper/Creswin can prove me wrong, I’ll be a happy camper and I’ll be the first to say pappa, u were right to believe the project would turn out perfect from the get go.
....you have your take wolverine....i have mine....but both of us are only going by media reports and 'sometimes' they aren't accurate...i did say sometimes :lol: If there is any serious alterations to the original proposal , ie the changes you mentioned and are concerned about.....then i'm with you....IF the stadium, for the MOST part, is not delivered in the manner it was originally presented, then i have to question the parties involved...We were promised a first class facility...cutting costs that result in a bare shell is not going to cut it for the fans in the Peg, or user groups....Cresswin/Asper and the govt. risk the wrath of the taxpayers and fans if this comes up short...For now, i'll reserve anymore comment, until more 'official' releases/facts are known, with regard to 'adjustments' surrounding the facility....I have to give it the ol 'we'll see'
good look finding a bank to loan him money to build a stadium he won’t own…
and since Izzy passed on, the Asper family name is like a blight on Winnipeg, sucking money for their vanity projects
and I’m glad Asper resigned those many years ago - proof he has no class and didn’t deserve to be a Bomber board member.
Leaving aside the construction issue, what I'm trying to figure out is this: what skin does Asper have in this thing. I've been involved in enough business deals to know that if the one in control does not have something to lose in it, it's doomed.
Do any of you supporters of this thing think for a second that if the cost overruns get to the point where he's Creswin is losing money on the project, that it won't pull the pin, or say "make this thing cheaper somehow or we will pull the pin"? What motivation would he have for backstopping a stadium project?
The only way Creswin benefits is if he pays back the money. If he doesn’t he can’t BUY the Polo Park land and he can’t own the Bombers. The City isn’t giving anything up for free - the Polo Park land is to be purchased at fair market value.
isnt this thread and the 'black rod' thread the same thing by the same poster, ctreated only minutes apart?
shouldn't this have been one thread slagging off asper, instead of two?
i think technically the black rod one delves more into the many connections between selinger, asper and katz... but i hear you... a merge would be welcome
straight into file 13
