Argos struggling to stay afloat ! National Post !

Oh boy this is not good :thdn:

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Nothing new here. The team will be fine under Braley until 2017.

Depends on what your definition of "fine" is :wink:

Drawing about as many fans as TFC and having 1/5th of the payroll is fine in my books

We should remember the NP publisher is Paul Godfrey. The reporter was impressed the Bills drew twice as many fans (to one game last year) as the Argos are averaging this year. He failed to mention Rogers admitted they papered the crowd and that Toronto game was the smallest crowd in the NFL last year and the smallest crowd in the Bills series.

I guess the Argos could paper the crowd like the previous owner's did (Cynamon & Sokolowski) in their first couple of years, drawing 35,000 crowds to Skydome for the Argos. So impressive, but giving away tickets doesn't pay the bills. Now Rogers doesn't want to pay the Bills anymore, either. :wink:

If the NP is wondering why the crowds are down, perhaps they should look at their own online CFL section, with the lead story under the Argos banner being over 1 month old...the 2nd story was from the Labour Day game! The Als 2nd story is about Michael Sams signing in Dallas? This is particularly sad considering the NP has access to the finest CFL writers in Canada as part of their newspaper chain...but are too lazy or stupid to even update their CFL team sections more than once every few months during the season. Thanks for nothing Godfrey you crummy turncoat. You can bet they update their beloved NFL section on an hourly basis. So just what "nation" is that newspaper supposed to represent?

Believing the National post Is a good laugh

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This dreadful season of the orphan Argonauts muddles on with little or nothing to feel right about.

The stadium, as always, was nearly empty, devoid of atmosphere: It gives the Argos no energy; the Argos give almost nothing back.

So now you are saying that the NP are now anti-CFL? just because a journalist dared to criticize the situation in Toronto?? how dare they!!
That's funny, the article doesn't tell us anything new - the Argos losing tons of money every year, declining attendance. I would have been very surprised if any paper did not criticize the Argo situation.

Why weren't you complaining about Naylors article on TSN last week ? seems to me that if TSN is criticizing the Argo situation then things must be really bad. Why does the Post article get your anger and your criticism of their owner Godfrey??
Do you call TSN a "turncoat" ??

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Agreed nothing really new here. Perhaps this thread can be merged with the Argo ‘megathread’ we already have.

Well for those like Xvys - who want to place most of the blame for the Argos struggles on much of the Toronto media for conspiring to injure the Argos - (instead of correctly placing the bulk of the blame on poor unimaginative marketing that has failed to capture the attention of anyone beyond a small niche of core fans willing to buy tickets - a situation that said media then accurately reports on) - you may soon have to add the Sun newspapers to your list of co-conspirators since they are being purchased from Quebecor by the National Post ownership.

Not just a Toronto media conspiracy but here's one from the the Regina Leader Post

attendance this season has averaged less than 19,000 per game, which means the Argos, despite cutting front office staff, is operating at a loss again even as the team wobbles toward a playoff spot in the historically weak East. A source with knowledge of franchise values put the proper price tag for the Argos at about $5 million, which sounds low but is a lot to pay for the right to lose money annually.
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I could add the Star chain too and the Globe of course, they are all reporting the same thing.
It's all a conspiracy by the media

But here is a positive article about the Argos by THE POST

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“A source with knowledge of franchise values put the proper price tag for the Argos at about $5 million, which sounds low but is a lot to pay for the right to lose money annually.”

The funny thing is, there is a lot of latent value in the Argos. By ‘latent’, I mean the potential is there to turn it into a profitable operation. They just need the right venue to play at, which will add immensely to the game day experience. Once they sort that out, fans will start coming out again, and they will stop bleeding red ink.

If anyone can figure out the venue situation, acquiring the Argos for $5 million (essentially chump change, in the big picture) will seem like a real bargain.

Godfrey never did get his NFL dream team and that has to hurt the man deep down, and Hamilton has built a new stadium and Ottawa a new/refurbished one here in Ontario.

So the reporters can write what they want, all they want for all I care. I hope Godfrey and his buddies and Phil Lind and and the reporters blame the CFL for not getting an NFL team in Toronto. 8)

This is why Toronto won 2 weeks ago vs Hamilton and why they will win again on Saturday :thdn: CFL babies Toronto and as much as I enjoy the rivalry between Hamilton & Toronto maybe it's time Toronto goes away for a few years until their fans realize what they have lost and new ownership (MLS) comes back and rights the ship.

Nothing was worse than watching Grey cup 100 and seeing how bad this game was setup for Toronto to win. Reminds me of WWF.

The Argos couldn't have got any better marketing than they did for hosting and winning the 100th, The publicity from the event, the half time extravaganza, winning the game, the parade........but no increase in season ticket sales and a decline in attendance, what more could they have done?................ :roll:

Struggling to stay afloat,in shark infested water !!!!! A Leaky Boat for sure.

The Argos are suffering at the gate after lifting all home blackouts over the past 30 years. They've decimated their seasons ticket base because there's little reason for fans to subscribe with all the home games on TV and with plenty of good seats available for walk-up fans.

I realize other Toronto sports teams lift blackouts, but football is the perfect TV game. The CFL is a tremendous TV event, the fans love it! But with the Argos season ticket base being so small, the franchise is relying on walk-up fans...who are at the whim of the win/loss column and competing events. With the CFL being more defensively-oriented over the past few years, even many walk-up fans are choosing TV instead.

Even the vaunted NFL has an ironclad blackout policy. If the game isn't 95% sold-out, the game is not televised locally. If the NFL, which earns billions each year from TV, blacks-out home games, what makes CFL teams immune from the lure of TV?

I realize blackouts are difficult these days with HDTV but the Argos over the past 30 years have cultivated a fan-base of TV fans, which they have tons of. The Argos ratings are great, but they've lost a generation of football fans who have turned into couch potatoes.

Add in terrible traffic in Toronto, the high parking prices, the high Skydome prices, the lack of atmosphere in a half-empty stadium and all the home games on TV...there is just little incentive for fans to attend live...unless it's a huge game like last year's Eastern Final which drew 36,000 raucous fans at Skydome..and with another 1,400,000 watching on TV.

Relocate the Argos to an intimate football-specific stadium with a fun atmosphere and the fans will come back. Just look at the success in Montreal, Ottawa and Hamilton who play in intimate football stadiums. There are as many football fans in Toronto as any other CFL city, if not more (according to the Angus Reid sports survey) build it and they will come!

And of that 36,000 raucous fans 20,000+ were Hamilton fans :lol:

Everything you point out is correct but that's "the reality" of that market. That's why I've believed for a while now that the league needs to subsidize the Argos IF. Let's be honest. The only reason the Argos are around is so the other teams can benefit from National sponsors and a national TV deal. In fact many (not all) think the CFL can not thrive without a team in the Toronto market. Yet there is zero collective effort from the teams to reach in their pocket to sustain a Toronto team until a suitable stadium is available (likely through some other sport or event).

There is a saying that your only as strong as your weakest link. Well the owners have never been very good at accepting that fact. Every Commissioner that has been hired was told how to tow the line or was quickly replaced most often led rightly or wrongly by David Braley and his lieutenants. Some problems just take time to solve, some take a lot of time and patience.

In Montreal Bob Wetenhall got lucky... His teams with less than 5000 fans in the stands ended up downtown in a city starved for pro sports in the summer season, it was the end of a 20 year recession (1976-1995) and a team that was much more than an expansion team, he bought an instant winner.

In Hamilton Bob Young showed patience for 9 years and a free stadium fell in his laps and he made sure it was going to be the right fit. Not taking anything away from those two but they had the patience to invest until better times could come around.

In BC, David Braley had the fortunes that Bob Ackles decided to take the job on and now has a renovated stadium paid for by BC tax payers.

Every success story in the CFL has two common ingredients. Luck and Patience. Both those have not appeared in Toronto a city that eats its own. So the league has to decide if it will do like the NHL did in Phoenix or let the Argos go gracefully until a lucky opportunity presents itself.

Excellent points HfxTC, very well said! I agree 100%, the league should be supporting the Argos more. It's crucial for the success of the CFL to have a strong presence in Toronto. The prior Argo owner's C & S, implored that the league needed a revenue-sharing plan. It makes little sense for some teams to be turning nice profits while others are being bled dry. While CFL teams are independent businesses, there needs to be a revenue-sharing model to better share the success of some CFL teams.

Toronto fans will also need to be patient. Despite all the media pessimism, there will be a solution. The wheels will be in motion at the end of the season (as Braley reiterated, there will be no negotiations during the season), and with a new administration at City Hall, this will get done. By 2018 the Argos, Toronto's Football Team Since 1873, will be in a new football stadium and many of the ills of the franchise will be ancient history. :thup: